Fun to drive, great mileage (20k+ yr commute)

Find a well maintained Rabbit diesel.... just a throught

Teh E36 M3 wrote: Math: Current car @ 18MPG 20000/year= 1111 gallons @$4/gal=$4444/year @5 years=$22222 Resale: ~$1k, Maint: ?? Focus (or other decent mileage car) @36mpg purchase price $16k? 20000/year= 555 gallons @$4/gal=$2222/year @5 years $11111 Resale: $6-7k Gas Savings: $11111 Residual cost: $9-10k Total Cost: New Focus: ~$21k Old Car: $21k+ maint cost So its a wash if you get the new car with higher mileage expectation. Except that you can get the *new* car, with a warranty, an d modern features to drive during that time.

This assumes he is paying cash for the new car..

and assumes fixed gas prices.. Which would work too the advantage of the new car..

Plenty of really nice 25-30 mpg used cars on the market.

ronholm wrote: I can't help but say something... If the only reason you are thinking about buying a new car is to save money at the pump... You have to be really bad at math. You are putting enough miles on cars you make them 'worthless' in a very short order.. So if the plan is to save money on the commute. Well.. A cheaper gas hog might actually cost you less per mile than a shiny new car which would get marginally better fuel economy... A new mustang will not lower your total cost per mile of driving. Now.. if you want a mustang... and can afford the luxury.. and really want to spend your raise before the money even shows up in your bank account.. Go for it..

Your post is the reason you are told in grade school not to ASSUME. 1. A 2011 is not new. Unless you are a car dealer trying to put one over on someone. 2. No where did I say model year 2012/2013. New is a relative term especially when my current is from 1997. The Focus would be a small exception as it was redesigned for this year and is MUCH better than the previous model is every quantifiable way. And I am well aware that depreciation would take a large chunk out of any savings. There are plenty of 2012 models that are used. 3. I would put my math skills up against anyone's. 4. They have to be at least 2009 or newer for warranty and or top tier financing rates. If it is older than that, there had better be a REALLY compelling reason I am considering it. 5. I have written a spreadsheet with obscene amounts of information and formula computations on it. I am asking if there is something I overlooked. For instance one of the better vehicles that rates on my personal formula metric is a Mazda 6 4cyl. They can get 31 mpg and are as cheap as 12k for an 09/10 model year. 6. I hardly consider a V6 Mustang a luxury in any sense of the term other than the good mpg to hp ratio. They can be had used for 18k. 7. The mileage is one reason why I mentioned reliability. It either has to be under warranty or reliable 98% of the time, hence why VW is low on the totem pole.

The idea is that instead of shoveling money into the gas tank, that some of that money be paying for an asset that doesn't turn into smoke (literaly) right after you pay for it. My formula accounts for total monthly expense increase, which allows the payment to be somewhat offset by the fuel savings. If I went with that alone I would end up with a Toyota. I would cry myself asleep. That is why I am asking the enthusiast community for their thoughts.

Hey... If you want a new(ish) Mustang and can afford it don't let me talk you out of it..

I just have to say something when people want to run out and go into debt for a newer car in an effort to save money.

Again I make assumptions.

You get a raise.. lets say 500 bucks a month.. the average guy these days runs out to celebrate by signing up for a 550 dollar a month car payment.

That is all I am saying.. I ain't saying you can't or shouldn't go buy the car if it what you want... (I am VERY ANTI CAR PAYMENT, rabidly annoyingly so)

But again.. It isn't a 'need' which makes it a luxury... Even if it is just a V6 Mustang.

At my house the newest car is a 99.. The wife drives a 97.. my daily's are all 1980's machines.. I don't have to work on or spend crazy amounts of money on any of these cars once all of the preventative maintenance is caught up...

I have thought many times about buying something newer and nicer.. I could walk right in anywhere and pay cash for just about anything I wanted as I have been making a nice car payment to myself since I was 18 years old.. I have yet to find a car I like more than the account..

So.. No offense meant.. and if a newer-ish car is what you want, and you can afford it.. GO FOR IT!!!!! please... A 2011 Mustang would be a ton of fun.. even as a dodge guy it tops my list.. Just don't run out and buy it because you think you 'deserve' it... Or spend your raise before it hits your account..

Now please.. I understand I have made many assumptions which my be totally off base.. and if they don't apply to you... PLEASE ignore them..

I just had to rant simply because of the mood I am in, and how what you said reminded me of some really bad decisions I have seen friends make. They took pay increases which should have been huge blessings in their lives and instead created more stress, and failed miserably at improving the quality of their life.

But if you are just asking about the Car.. i say buy the V6 stang with all the suspension goodies...

In reply to ronholm:

No big. I totally understand where you are coming from. For instance my dad clears 80k a year and he went out and bought himself a 97 Chevy 1500. The flip side is that he drives 5 mins to work. The Chrysler needs replaced, period. I would like to get something newer just because I hate working on cars because I have to in order to get to work. I want to work on them to improve them or help someone else out. I havent driven a vehicle with working a/c in 10 years. I make enough currently without my pay increase to get a decent vehicle I just don't want to spend more than I should on a car that could very easily be doing 20k miles a year and therefore depreciate at the maximum rate. The problem is that I am an enthusiast and I like pleasure driving(and riding for that matter). I have plenty of people I know that try to buy "lifestyle" cars and end up ruining themselves financially. I am just trying to convert some of the gas fumes into sheet metal (money wise). I know cars are poor investments but at least them have a return that lasts longer than a combustion cycle.

ronholm wrote:

Teh E36 M3 wrote: Math: Current car @ 18MPG 20000/year= 1111 gallons @$4/gal=$4444/year @5 years=$22222 Resale: ~$1k, Maint: ?? Focus (or other decent mileage car) @36mpg purchase price $16k? 20000/year= 555 gallons @$4/gal=$2222/year @5 years $11111 Resale: $6-7k Gas Savings: $11111 Residual cost: $9-10k Total Cost: New Focus: ~$21k Old Car: $21k+ maint cost So its a wash if you get the new car with higher mileage expectation. Except that you can get the *new* car, with a warranty, an d modern features to drive during that time.

This assumes he is paying cash for the new car.. and assumes fixed gas prices.. Which would work too the advantage of the new car.. Plenty of really nice 25-30 mpg used cars on the market.

You can get a car loan for ~2% right now. That is cheaper than paying in cash. The stock market returned 12% in the first quarter. Normally I'm anti car-loan more than most (rabidly so !), but in this case, I'd go with the loan, get the new car that gets great mileage, and have fun. Like you said, the Mustang is a toy- no sense in trying to paint it any other way.

Again, I'd look at the Mazda3/Focus/Fiesta/Mazda2 thing. And I'd find a warranty that lasted 100k if possible, and drive it without worry.

In reply to I Am Keyser Söze:

Yeah, you got me there. Saw a silver NB with black wheels that looked about like 15x10 doing 80 on I-40 today, complete with rollbar and girlfriend's hair blowing in the wind.

Personally I can't stand the sun on my face while driving, and I hate driving verts with the top up... It is a DAMN good choice though.

What would you say to a car with 274 hp, a six speed stick, rear wheel drive, a sticker of 24 grand, 30 mpg highway and a ten year warranty?

For the original owner, cannot be transferred (or combined with any other offer, yadda yadda yadda...)

Check out the Mazda3 with SkyActiv - 39 mpg with the six speed manual, and they start under 20k. The Mini Cooper (regular and S model) popped up on my list, as did the Veloster Turbo and the Chevy Cruze Eco. One thing to note is that many of the more efficient cars require premium fuel, so be sure to include that cost in your calculations. I just did the calculations last week, and the only thing that made sense for me was a used Prius. I'm in a similar situation at 400 miles per week, but a change from our Rav4 (worth 1$2k and delivers 24 mpg combined) to a new Prius would take seven years until break-even! And that's not including the present value of the investment in the Prius...

The government's website had a great calculator where you could change assumptions and get a good handle on the fuel cost: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.shtml

Because you need to replace your existing car, it makes much more sense to get a fuel efficient car. You're going to buy regardless, whereas in my case I'd only be looking at replacing a vehicle if the numbers work out. Luckily, there seem to be a lot of good options out there, with more to come in the future...

So, the calculations are all well and good. However, there are a few things to consider, IMO:

1. Size - Are you a big guy? I fit well in an NC miata, but may still want to kill someone if I had to do 20k/year in one. If you are something a bit bigger (mazda 6 is my go to as well since it is a nice size with good depreciation; 2010 4cyl for 11-12k with 50k on the clock) that may not do as well mpg-wise as a smaller vehicle.

2. Fun factor - How much fun do you want in your commute? Will this be your only car or could something relatively boring with a $1000 in suspension upgrades do well enough for the DD and save you enough to keep a fun car around?

3. Other needs: Do you need to haul stuff? Will you you traveling these distances in bad weather often?

Just a few other considerations that may play into what you get.

In reply to sanman:

1. Yes somewhat. I wouldn't consider a Miata as my only vehicle regardless. I usually keep some odds and ends in my car. Nothing big, but without a decent trunk or backseat even it wouldnt be best.

2. I want to not hate a car Im going to be spending 1.5 hours in a day. It has to be somewhat fun. At my current juncture 2 cars is out of the question. One will have to do enough for the moment.

3. Some stuff will be hauled. The biggest would be a rifle case. That is about the biggest item I haul at any given time, and I am in the midwest so yes about the weather, but it doesn't make much difference really as I've driven FWD, RWD and AWD cars in a variety of weather.

I did do some more looking and it seems like 1mpg is roughly 4bucks a month in fuel give or take. At bare minimum I am looking at 100 bucks a month to upgrade my transportation (in total monthly cost increases) over that the Mustang is another 150 bucks roughly. When I look at it that way it doesn't seem so bad, though getting a Civic SI or GTI seems better, the downside is they need premium gas. These numbers do change in the formula if gas gets cheaper or I drive less, when I why I keep going back and forth on this so much.

One other consideration, because I am going to be driving so much would springing for a CPO and the 100k powertrain actually be worthwhile in this case?

csbassplayer2003 wrote: In reply to sanman: 1. Yes somewhat. I wouldn't consider a Miata as my only vehicle regardless. I usually keep some odds and ends in my car. Nothing big, but without a decent trunk or backseat even it wouldnt be best. 2. I want to not hate a car Im going to be spending 1.5 hours in a day. It has to be somewhat fun. At my current juncture 2 cars is out of the question. One will have to do enough for the moment. 3. Some stuff will be hauled. The biggest would be a rifle case. That is about the biggest item I haul at any given time, and I am in the midwest so yes about the weather, but it doesn't make much difference really as I've driven FWD, RWD and AWD cars in a variety of weather. I did do some more looking and it seems like 1mpg is roughly 4bucks a month in fuel give or take. At bare minimum I am looking at 100 bucks a month to upgrade my transportation (in total monthly cost increases) over that the Mustang is another 150 bucks roughly. When I look at it that way it doesn't seem so bad, though getting a Civic SI or GTI seems better, the downside is they need premium gas. These numbers do change in the formula if gas gets cheaper or I drive less, when I why I keep going back and forth on this so much. One other consideration, because I am going to be driving so much would springing for a CPO and the 100k powertrain actually be worthwhile in this case?

To your last point, I would say that is the maximum savings right there. Buy something with ~30k or less, get the CPO w/ 100k warranty and drive it 200k.

We are in the same boat. Wife drives 75 miles per day. After lots of driving and hunting and testing and comparing we have decided on a 2012 Accent SE in 6spd manual. It's fun, light, cruises 70mph at 2500rpms, sips gas and is tossable as all get out with great brakes. Add in a new sticker price just cracking the $16k mark and a 10/100 warranty and it's a done deal.

In reply to Bobzilla:

Still no two door hatch?

We don't want a 2 door hatch. We wanted a 4-door hatch for multiple reasons, the main one being room inside for 2 large dogs for a smaller "vacation".

Bobzilla wrote: We are in the same boat. Wife drives 75 miles per day. After lots of driving and hunting and testing and comparing we have decided on a 2012 Accent SE in 6spd manual. It's fun, light, cruises 70mph at 2500rpms, sips gas and is tossable as all get out with great brakes. Add in a new sticker price just cracking the $16k mark and a 10/100 warranty and it's a done deal.

Did you guys go for the big wheels?