Javelin wrote: The *real* top-5 investment cars you ask? Answer: * 1989-1993 Ford Mustang 5.0 (LX, GT), stock * 1997-1998 & 2000-2001 Acura Integra Type-R, stock * 1998-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (Z/28, SS) and Pontiac Firebird (Formula, Trans Am, Firehawk), stock * 1993-1995 Mazda RX-7 (FD), stock * 1994-1996 Chevrolet Impala SS, stock Discuss.
"stock" = "unicorn"
fast_eddie_72 wrote: I'd say Acura Integra GS-R. Maybe original AE86. Final gen Supras.
I agree. I think you have to look at it generationally. What cars were aspired to by the next gen folks? The baby boomers have their hey day muscle cars. They were attainable, and have become rare primarily due to abuse/use/etc. I think you'll see many of these peak in value as those who care about them generally age and die off.
I think any era defining sports car has potential 30+ years out when the generation finally has the wallets fat enough. how many minty fresh mk1 GTI's still exist in factory trim? What might one be worth in another 20 years? Integra GS-R's fall into the same camp. Stripped for motors and generally declined in value / beat on. How many truly good mint factory edition cars are already left? CRX-Si? E30 M3's are climbing in perfect factory shape.
...or who knows. maybe they're just econo boxes and nobody will care.
Special editions of common cars who's herd will be thinned out, and who's owners will recall a time when they lusted after them as teenagers. The '94-'96 Impala SS which have not been whipped into hood rides seem to be gaining in value already and fall into this description.
Javelin wrote: The *real* top-5 investment cars you ask? Answer: * 1989-1993 Ford Mustang 5.0 (LX, GT), stock * 1997-1998 & 2000-2001 Acura Integra Type-R, stock * 1998-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (Z/28, SS) and Pontiac Firebird (Formula, Trans Am, Firehawk), stock * 1993-1995 Mazda RX-7 (FD), stock * 1994-1996 Chevrolet Impala SS, stock Discuss.
Those are all miserable investments. If you are lucky, they might appreciate enough to pay maintenance, repairs, insurance, storage costs, etc. Buy what you like and invest in mutual funds.
In reply to Otto Maddox:
I agree with that. Buying cars as an investment is stupid.
Otto Maddox wrote: Those are all miserable investments. If you are lucky, they might appreciate enough to pay maintenance, repairs, insurance, storage costs, etc. Buy what you like and invest in mutual funds.
logic and sound advice have no place in this thread!!
In reply to xflowgolf:
Touche'. Maybe we should rename it "cars you might not completely lose your ass on."
In that case, Javelin's list is pretty good.
I say these will be the most collectible:
1965 Mustang fastback (Only in Prairie Bronze)
1977 Chevy C-20 (Only with a 454 and in half restored condition)
1978 Chevy C-30 (Only with a 454 and a dump bed modification)
1988 CRX si (Only in black with STS mods)
1990 Civic si (Only in half restored condition)
2004 CR-V EX (Only with a TVRCCA decal on it)
1974 TVR 2500M (Only in half restored condition)
Seriously, everything will be collectible. Hell, 4 doors and wagons are now collectible. We never thought they would be back in the day. I didn't think my LS-6 Chevelle would be collectible when I swapped the autotragic for a 4 speed, and then sold it for next to nothing. A couple years ago my very car would have been worth $150k.
In my mind, the real question is what will be VALUABLE.
As far as the list in the link, my thinking is that the Ford GT and the Solstice coupe will be the only cars to gain a huge amount in value. The others will be moderately valued collectibles.
I can think of a lot of cars not on that list that will be collectible and valuable. And I agree with Woody that non-car people shouldn't write these articles, and car people shouldn't pay any attention to those that do.
93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Otto Maddox: I agree with that. Buying cars as an investment is stupid.
While in general I agree, I read somewhere recently that the average value of collector cars has gone up at a much faster rate than other investments in the past 5 years. It can work on in some cases, but for the small percentage of those people that make out, a large percentage won't.
bravenrace wrote:93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Otto Maddox: I agree with that. Buying cars as an investment is stupid.While in general I agree, I read somewhere recently that the average value of collector cars has gone up at a much faster rate than other investments in the past 5 years. It can work on in some cases, but for the small percentage of those people that make out, a large percentage won't.
I firmly believe the bottom will fall out of the collector car market just like it did a while back plus the rising price will effect it I think.
In reply to 93EXCivic:
Yeah. I guess my point is that collector cars can be good investments if you really know what you are doing and have really good timing...and some luck.
Bravenrace brings up an interesting idea: Wagons. I wonder how many of the 50's and 60's wagons were junked and parted to fix up convertibles and then shredded. How many are left and how many can be restored to like-new condition or are in original showroom condition? Versus basically every 60's convertible that was ever made is still around and then some, and they've all been over-restored. I could see an interest in the wagons 30 years from now. Then again they may still trade at a 25% value versus the convertibles, because scarce doesn't equal valuable..
I would never count on cars to increase in value and be an investment. But it's fun to theorize what would be the next $125,000 car that we all turned down as a POS when we were younger.
One thing I do know - the cars I would have picked 20-30 years ago as future classics have gone nowhere. I am still waiting on my beloved early Z cars and RX-7s to skyrocket. Waiting, but not expecting.
In reply to Otto Maddox:
Mutual funds are about the stupidest investment on earth, but hey whatever floats your boat.
Javelin wrote: In reply to Otto Maddox: Mutual funds are about the stupidest investment on earth, but hey whatever floats your boat.
All of them? You know they aren't homogenous, right? They are simply pooled investments.
In reply to Otto Maddox:
Yes, I do know that, and yes, they are all still stupid.
If you wish to discuss further, please start an Off Topic thread called "Mutual Funds" and I will gladly weigh in.
As for the topic at hand, cars can be very good investments if you keep in mind that A: you can (and need to) enjoy them and drive them during your ownership and B: you won't retire off of them.
The list I posted is of cars that were extremely popular and/or desired when new, maintained that popularity for many years, inspiring younger generations, and are even now really difficult to find in clean, stock condition.
Otto Maddox wrote:Javelin wrote: The *real* top-5 investment cars you ask? Answer: * 1989-1993 Ford Mustang 5.0 (LX, GT), stock * 1997-1998 & 2000-2001 Acura Integra Type-R, stock * 1998-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (Z/28, SS) and Pontiac Firebird (Formula, Trans Am, Firehawk), stock * 1993-1995 Mazda RX-7 (FD), stock * 1994-1996 Chevrolet Impala SS, stock Discuss.Those are all miserable investments. If you are lucky, they might appreciate enough to pay maintenance, repairs, insurance, storage costs, etc. Buy what you like and invest in mutual funds.
Honestly, none of them could really be called an investment opportunity. Buy a car with the hopes of selling it for a profit would be pure speculation unless you've devised some way by which the car is going to provide you with income.
I've always done better by flipping cars. Not as much potential for profit, but it's short term. Over the time it would take for a car to appreciate to a large extent, you can flip a lot of them without the same kind of risk.
That said, I guy what I like and don't really pay a lot of attention to it's collectability.
I've gotten lucky with getting cars at the bottom of the curve. I don't know that my MR2 will ever be collectable, but it's worth as much as I paid for it. That's what I paid for it, not what I have in it. Still, better than you'll do with most cars.
bravenrace wrote: I've always done better by flipping cars. Not as much potential for profit, but it's short term. Over the time it would take for a car to appreciate to a large extent, you can flip a lot of them without the same kind of risk. That said, I guy what I like and don't really pay a lot of attention to it's collectability.
I am even less ambitious than that. I am happy if I can buy a car, drive it for a year or two, and sell it for what I paid for it or a slight loss. Oh, and do this without any huge investment into upgrades, maintenance, or repairs.
And as noted, buying reliable cars at the bottom of the depreciation curve is the best way of doing this.
Otto Maddox wrote:bravenrace wrote: I've always done better by flipping cars. Not as much potential for profit, but it's short term. Over the time it would take for a car to appreciate to a large extent, you can flip a lot of them without the same kind of risk. That said, I guy what I like and don't really pay a lot of attention to it's collectability.I am even less ambitious than that. I am happy if I can buy a car, drive it for a year or two, and sell it for what I paid for it or a slight loss. Oh, and do this without any huge investment into upgrades, maintenance, or repairs.
I am even less ambitious then that. I just play with cars for fun and if I come up even close to even I will happy as hell which is why all my toys have cost less then $600 buy in. LOL.
Javelin wrote:Otto Maddox wrote:They (Solstice Coupe) were not not wanted, they were just only in production for a *very* short time before GM pulled the plug on Pontiac. They were in very high demand, actually.bastomatic wrote: Of those I think the Solstice coupe has a chance given the low production numbers. Obviously the GT as it's already collectable.Low production numbers due to people not wanting a car generally don't help.
Right. We bought a Solstice GXP Coupe new. We had to work to get that car. Our dealer was getting one, but wouldn't take a deposit until they had a vin and other people wanted it. We hassled them until finally they were able to get the vin and I did a deposit over the phone right then. We drive it an enjoy it like any of our other classic/collector cars.
I don't buy cars for an investment, I buy them because that's what I love, along with bikes. Luckily several of them have turned out to be a pretty good investment, but even if they hadn't I'd be a happy camper.
Javelin wrote: The *real* top-5 investment cars you ask? Answer: * 1989-1993 Ford Mustang 5.0 (LX, GT), stock * 1997-1998 & 2000-2001 Acura Integra Type-R, stock * 1998-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (Z/28, SS) and Pontiac Firebird (Formula, Trans Am, Firehawk), stock * 1993-1995 Mazda RX-7 (FD), stock * 1994-1996 Chevrolet Impala SS, stock Discuss.
no
yes
no
yes
no
And it was hard for me to type "yes" for the type R. Something about it tells me it will be underappreciated in the "old man buying the car he always wanted" market. The FD, on the other hand, is beautiful. Hopefully all TT 13b's will have been replaced with LS2's by the time I'm old (stirs pot of flounder shaped trolls)
That's not an import bias, but the others aren't rare or interesting enough (or fundamentally good enough cars) for me.
C5 FRC
C5 ZO6
CTS-V
To answer the import bias question.
JFX001 wrote:ReverendDexter wrote:I fully agree.JFX001 wrote: Tough call on the T-Bird...maybe the Neiman-Marcus Edition. If the Bullitt is to be considered as a future classic, it should be the '08 model.'08s a better car, but what has value is typically what was first, so I'd expect the New Edge Bullitt to be worth more in 30 years. Though, really, if you're banking on any modern mustang to gain value, I would go with an '03/'04 Cobra, especially an '03 10th Anniversary edition. That was a performance turnaround for the Mustang, the last of the Cobras (after that they were replaced with the Shelbys), the last of the IRS cars, the last of the fox-chassis cars, the first of the factory-supercharged Mustangs (at least for anything in the last 30 years). On top of that, they take easy to mods and most have at least something done to them, so a truly bone-stock car is rare.
Agreed here. The 03-04 Cobras were pretty freaking awesome cars. The Bullitt and the Shelby GT just seem like factory dress up kits.
I retract my statement about the Solstice Coupe. I was thinking convertible. Helps if I actually comprehend what I read.
For others with bad reading comprehension skills:
In reply to Anti-stance:
04 and 05 Mustang's were two different generations. And the '05 and up Mustangs are better cars all the way around.
1st gen Miata will be a collectors car. Lots of race history, lots of racing owners, lots of crashed-out cars making them rarer every day. It revived the small convertable market and has been a leading seller in that category ever since it was first sold. A clean numbers-matching car in 20 years will bring good money. Sure they built a lot of them, but they also built over 100,000 MGA's and look at that market.
You'll need to log in to post.
