Future STi?

Honestly not sure how trustworthy this news source is, but if it is, grim news for Subaru fans indeed. The new STi may not have true AWD, but instead use the engine to power the front wheels and electric motors to power the rear wheels (Like a bass-ackwards NSX). And no true manual transmission. The only good news is that the WRX may retain it's traditional AWD/non-hybrid setup.

That's how all the locomotives operates and they might have a lot of torque....

I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I'd love to see more uses of hybrid technology for performance purposes instead of just economy. Right now improved EV technology is the bleeding edge and we're already seeing that incorporated in exotic hypercars, so it's only a matter of time before the tech trickles down. If it's crazy fast AND gets 30+ MPG I would love to see it! Plus, as long as there's at least one traditional performance model with a manual transmission in the lineup, I think everyone wins.

Not sure that that is really bad news. As has been discussed in a few other threads, the demise of the stick shift is not just because people don't want to learn to drive them, but also because the best automated transmissions do a better job at getting around a race course fast, and can be very efficient. Notice that I said automated transmission, not automatic, because it may not use a traditional torque converter type trans.

As for the electrically driven half of the drive train, I would want to try it before I condemn it. It could be awesome. An all electric AWD high performance STi style EV would probably be better though.

Interesting. I wonder if they will still have the entire engine forward of the front axle or if they will package things differently up front more like a standard FWD platform.

I just can't get excited about it. Automated transmissions don't really do anything for me, yes they are faster and more efficient, but I don't find them engaging or satisfying or enjoyable to drive. As for the hybrid portion, maybe it will be faster and more fuel efficient, but all that hybrid equipment adds to cost as well as weight. And then there is the cost involved when the hybrid system needs servicing, such as when battery packs go bad.

Faster is faster. Your fastest horse is slower than my minivan.

NickD wrote: And then there is the cost involved when the hybrid system needs servicing, such as when battery packs go bad.

Everyone always brings that up, but there are plenty of Priuses and 1g Insights running around with 200k+ on the original batteries, doing just fine. The fears of them all needing $5000 battery packs every 60k have been proven to be largely unfounded.

The STi is Subaru's top-of-the-line halo offering, it makes complete sense that they would throw everything they've got into making it the fastest, most advanced car in their lineup with fancy hybrid tech, automated gearbox, etc. Whatever it takes to make it go around a track faster. For the people that don't want that, there will be the WRX. I see no problem with this whatsoever.

That would also explain why the NA STi never received the new FA-series engine and has soldiered on with the EJ-series 2.5 turbo.

I think this sort of thing is the wave of the future. Just think, hang a really big alternator off it with a small, light battery pack and you have AWD, with huge torque at the rear. All this without the complication of a centre diff and the need to run a driveshaft to the rear.

pointofdeparture wrote:

NickD wrote: And then there is the cost involved when the hybrid system needs servicing, such as when battery packs go bad.

Everyone always brings that up, but there are plenty of Priuses and 1g Insights running around with 200k+ on the original batteries, doing just fine. The fears of them all needing $5000 battery packs every 60k have been proven to be largely unfounded.

Thank you. And battery tech is only getting better and better. Maybe it will never achieve the energy density of gasoline, but compared to the thousands of moving parts in an ICE, a battery and motor is quite a simple machine.

But I still probably wouldn't buy this STi

maschinenbau wrote:

pointofdeparture wrote:

NickD wrote: And then there is the cost involved when the hybrid system needs servicing, such as when battery packs go bad.

Everyone always brings that up, but there are plenty of Priuses and 1g Insights running around with 200k+ on the original batteries, doing just fine. The fears of them all needing $5000 battery packs every 60k have been proven to be largely unfounded.

Thank you. And battery tech is only getting better and better. Maybe it will never achieve the energy density of gasoline, but compared to the thousands of moving parts in an ICE, a battery and motor is quite a simple machine. But I still probably wouldn't buy this STi

I am going to do my best to make sure my next car is a Focus RS and I am on my 4th Subaru. Ford "gets it" these days.

NickD wrote: Honestly not sure how trustworthy this news source is, but if it is, grim news for Subaru fans indeed. The new STi may not have true AWD, but instead use the engine to power the front wheels and electric motors to power the rear wheels (Like a bass-ackwards NSX). And no true manual transmission. The only good news is that the WRX may retain it's traditional AWD/non-hybrid setup.

I find this setup intriguing and would like to see more.

So it would be like the Porsche 918 and McLaren P1 for the average Joe.

Both of which are hybrids and use electric motors to drive half the wheels.

Both are considered to be very impressive vehicles from a performance and technology standpoint

Also Subaru fan-boi's tend to be the biggest whiners on the face of the planet. Don't like the concept? Don't buy it. They always do though because the results are always worth it to them.

Subaru will probably still use an EJ lol.

turtl631 wrote: Subaru will probably still use an EJ that still runs cylinder #4 lean, lol.

FTFY.....

being a 10 year WRX owner (maybe not a typical one), I think that adding some electric motors could make it much more satisfying to drive.
On my car, daily driving, doing occasional autocross and rallycross, despite experimenting for most of those 10 years with suspension, tires, alignment, front LSD, driving technique, turbos, tunes, etc... the areas I always wanted more than the car would give:
1. understeery -- I've been told it's a byproduct of the weight balance. I don't know if it's really 100% because of weight (maybe it really is, or maybe the driveline also has some effects on wheel speeds, I don't honestly know for sure)
2. low end torque -- never ever seemed to make any power down low (I know I know, it's the 2.0L motor). gearing would probably help, displacement would probably help. electric motors ? stepping on the pedal and getting instantaneous "go", could be really nice. I've driven the 2.5L WRX's and an STi or two, and while some will say that they have a lot more torque, I was never really blown away...plus with a newer model, I'd have to fix all the things I did to mine all over again (springs and roll bars and whatever else...and that was too exhausting to think about :P )
3. MPG -- gas is cheaper now, and I only drive around 10-12k miles per year, but a boost of 5 or 10 mpg would be great also.

HappyAndy wrote: but also because the best automated transmissions do a better job at getting around a race course fast

Might as well replace the driver's while you are at it, they just slow things down too!

The demise of stick shift is eventually going to force me to keep driving older cars I guess.

Sure, modern automatics are/can be faster. But driving a car isn't just about going fast. It's about actually enjoying it. Especially since 99.9% of STis never, ever see any kind of track. YMMV....

I am not apposed to this idea yet. They can screw it up but lets hope not.

The way I see it, they can play with all of the torque vectoring fanciness that the Focus RS is supposed to have, and to a lesser extent the Evos had, with already-proven hardware and some new code.

From a post-1st-owner viewpoint, I'd trust a hybrid drive system to be more reliable than a clutched AWD setup. And clutched AWDs have one theoretical disadvantage compared to this - they can only redistribute engine torque, they can't complement it. I'm picturing a setup that works in concert with electronic throttle so that you can get realtime torque bias to the rear coming out of a corner, that can cover up turbo lag as the rear wheels could push the car through the acceleration weak zone, and you really wouldn't want all THAT much coming out of the front wheels at that point anyway.

It could be VERY interesting if done right.

HiTempguy wrote:

HappyAndy wrote: but also because the best automated transmissions do a better job at getting around a race course fast

Might as well replace the driver's while you are at it, they just slow things down too!

That's in the pipeline too.

irish44j wrote: The demise of stick shift is eventually going to force me to keep driving older cars I guess. Sure, modern automatics are/can be faster. But driving a car isn't just about going fast. It's about actually enjoying it. Especially since 99.9% of STis never, ever see any kind of track. YMMV....

Exactly how I feel. Raw numbers aren't the end-all, be-all. After all, if they were, then the Miata never would have made it.

HappyAndy wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

HappyAndy wrote: but also because the best automated transmissions do a better job at getting around a race course fast

Might as well replace the driver's while you are at it, they just slow things down too!

That's in the pipeline too.

Yeah, not so sure about that.

Think of the most advanced robot in the world. Control that robot with the grooviest supercomputer devised by man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9nxNAv65PY

Now, compare the movements of that multi-million dollar walking (sort of) monument to computing power to the movements of a mosquito. Something tells me that us biological systems aren't quite finished yet.

Datsun310Guy wrote: That's how all the locomotives operates and they might have a lot of torque....

Electro-Motive don't rally.

granted there is a lot of money and top-of-the-line control systems and logic in these, but the WEC hybrid prototype cars are amazing in terms of performance.
Audi R18 E-Tron Quattro, Porsche 919, Toyota TS040, and even the short-lived Nissan GT-R LM Nismo.
Sure they are a far cry from anything that any of us would be driving on the roads, but it does show what is possible.
Watching a hybrid protoype pull away from an already very fast GTE Ferrari 458 (or similar) like it was standing still, is somethin' else...
Seeing that type of technology bleeding over into normal-people cars that we could possibly buy and drive someday, is exciting to me :)