FWD engine swapping into something Mini sized

I bought this '84 Innocenti a little while ago. It has a three cylinder Daihatsu engine / 5spd. Wheel bolt pattern appears to be 4x100mm so I can get some 13" tires on to ditch the TRX wheels.

The engine runs but not great so far. I think I'd like to swap something else with a little more power. And fuel injection. Currently has a carb with lots of vacuum lines (and no workshop manual or diagram). I'd kind of like to aim for a 2019 Challenge but we'll see (its a big distance to travel).

The car is roughly classic Mini sized but with a more square front end. I figure whatever fits a Mini would fit here plus a little extra space. It is 32" between the engine and transmission mounts. Looks like space for another cylinder.

To make a swap worthwhile I figured a target of around 100hp or more. My first thought was Toyota Echo as a donor. Small and all aluminum engine. It could provide me engine/gearbox with the wiring plus the wheels are 4x100. I'd like to spend something like $500-700 on my donor car.

Other thoughts were Toyota Tercel. The later DOHC cars had close to 100hp but most do not have a tach. Iron block but probably small and reasonably light.

Saturns would be do-able. The LL0 engine looks promising but rare to find. Did these die early because cheap running examples don't seem to be around.

Ford Zetecs would be nice but the Mini folks seem to say the engine with transmission is rather wide.

Hyundai Accents of around 2004 vintage seem to another promising and cheap donor. I've heard the shifter feel is a little lousy though.

A dark horse is the Mazda Protege. 1.6L and 2.0L engines. Cars rust out nicely making for a cheap donor. Iron block but would they be too big and wide? Any experience with these? This cheap optional donor showed up. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/lethbridge/2002-mazda-protege-branded-salvage-but-repairable/1395489100?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Or should I wait for a reasonably priced Echo?

hon-da

How important is it that the final product have a back seat and FWD? 

IIRC those cars are very closely related to a Mini. Those are probably 4x4" wheels, which is 4x101.6.

If it is close to a Mini, the easy button might be a Honda engine with a kit from SuperFastMinis or one of the others. 

A really fun option is a superbike engine running a  rear axle via a chain.
https://www.zcars.org.uk/hayabusa/

And of course, there was a factory turbo option.

I'd rather it have a rear seat and retain the fwd that way the kids can enjoy the silliness too. I might have a challenge getting it insured for the road with bike engine, chain and a rear wheel drive. I've also heard bike engines aren't much for the road but great for the track. No tracks around here :(

I think the suspension and brakes are closer to Daihatsu Charade than Mini (ie struts up front, transverse leaf out back) but the overall size is Mini-ish. So a Mini swap kit is likely not bolt in.

Looks like it started as a Mini and then got the Charade suspension grafted on. Which means you can graft a Mini suspension in. At the very least, dimensions should be the same so you know how that stuff will fit.

Bike engines suck for the road. You hadn't given us a lot to work with, though :)

Keith Tanner said:

Looks like it started as a Mini and then got the Charade suspension grafted on.

I think that is exactly what happened.

I always like the turbo version https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2011/05/31/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1985-de-tomaso-innocenti-turbo/. Still only 68hp though. I think the Echo engine could work, and I'm sure a manual trans donor would be very cheap if bought right. Have you given any thought to the Ford Ecoboost 1.0? 3-cylinder turbo so it stays close to the roots in that car, 123hp stock, and controls (ecu, wiring harness, etc) are available. Not a challenge effort at that point, but it sure would be neat.

Keeping it 3-cylinder 100 hp out of a turbocharged Metro/Sprint drivetrain is pretty well documented and reasonably cheap. The new Mirage has a 3-cylinder too that's pretty tiny and the whole car would be cheap. 

The structure was changed significantly from the early Innocenti De Tomaso with the 1275 BMC drivetrain  to the later versions. The stut towers weren't in the original. I wouldn't assume a Mini has the same underhood dimensions as this car. This might even be larger. A measuring tape, grinding wheels and a welder are probably going to be involved unless you can find a small enough donor. I believe the Echo engine is essentially the same as the Yaris/xB/xA unit, so shouldn't be hard to locate one to measure. How about one of the Suzuki GTI 16v twin cams? They were a fun little screamer.

Dave said:

Saturns would be do-able. The LL0 engine looks promising but rare to find. Did these die early because cheap running examples don't seem to be around.

They didn't sell well in Canda?  Any CL in the US should produce tons of cheap LL0s in running form.

ProDarwin said:

Dave said:

Saturns would be do-able. The LL0 engine looks promising but rare to find. Did these die early because cheap running examples don't seem to be around.

They didn't sell well in Canda?  Any CL in the US should produce tons of cheap LL0s in running form.

They are almost all the base engine. I found one or two LL0s but they were described as needing engine work. Canadians generally tend to buy cheaper cars than Americans. And cheaper trim levels too.

Supercharged Harley........more low end grunt than other bike engines ...and unexpected noises. 

Dave said:

ProDarwin said:

Dave said:

Saturns would be do-able. The LL0 engine looks promising but rare to find. Did these die early because cheap running examples don't seem to be around.

They didn't sell well in Canda?  Any CL in the US should produce tons of cheap LL0s in running form.

 

They are almost all the base engine. I found one or two LL0s but they were described as needing engine work. Canadians generally tend to buy cheaper cars than Americans. And cheaper trim levels too.

More specifically, they sold well in Quebec which is really a marooned piece of Europe.

Innocenti de Tomaso with a 1275 BMC motor for comparison.

DeadSkunk said:

Supercharged Harley........more low end grunt than other bike engines ...and unexpected noises. 

It's Italian right?  Then the only correct answers for unexpected noises are Aprilia RSV4 or MV Agusta Brutale Triple.

In reality, though- Honda.  K series, B series, whatever.

Polo 3 cyl TDI. 

Ford 1.0 Eco   turbocharged     123 HP

Keith Tanner said

More specifically, they sold well in Quebec which is really a marooned piece of Europe.

I saw an Innocenti dealer in St. Eustache, Quebec (where my wife is from) less than ten years ago.

Swift GTi donor car seems like a smart ticket, assuming one can be found.  They mostly all seem gone at this point.  

Austin A series 1380 with a HUGE cam. I mean, hunting and gulping to idle at 1500rpm barely. And to be mean to yourself swap in the Pudding Stick instead of the sensible rod-link.

Just a wild guess, but what about a Subaru Justy as a donor?

Mazda2 1.5L makes 100hp stock.

Mine with a tune from Dynotronics put out 97whp on a NASA approved Dynojet.

You'd need to run Megasquirt or similar most likely since the stock ECM is tied into a BCM, cluster, EPS, etc.

Stealing this from the Tercel/Echo thread. The xA/xB engines are all aluminum and make 108 HP stock. Should be relatively easy to find. Hop up parts are rare, but that's what welders and grinders are for.

In reply to No Time :

They make like 60 hp and zero aftermarket support.

I have a 1000cc Vtwin in my awd Justy,build thread to pop up soon.