so im about to start on the front end rebuild of my G-body based project. i already have bilstein shocks, 650 lb/in lowering springs, and 98 blazer spindles (two piston calipers and better hubs for the evntual C5 brake swap). im looking at doing the tall ball joint conversion, but the budget will not allow the SC&C parts. ive talked with marcus at lenght, so he knows my situation.
the vehicle is being built to compete in the GRM challenge, as well as be driven to florida for the event, and street use.
here are my budget friendly options that i have found so far.
1. UB machine upper control arms. they will make them to my specs for 110 a pair, accept stock style tall ball joints from afco for 15 each, and mount in the stock location with the stock hardware. my concern is that they are not bushed. its a metal on metal contact with a grease fitting for lubrication. any experience with these guys?
- speedway sells an adjustable, rod ended upper control arm with a shorter mounting length for 180 a pair. this may requre frame modification, and at the very least new mounting points and hardware. it also is only availible for a screw in ball joint, which i do not know if the taper is the same or where to find them in the long length.
lastly, i have not been able to find any lowers with the correct taper for less than 44 each.
i dont know if the tall ball joints will be worth the cost involved, though to be honest. the vehicle is currently running a 33MM front sway bar, and stock everything else. hendles like crap, but its also all worn out. the reccomendation can also be to just rebuild it and run it if its not worth the hassle, but everything ive read leads me to believe this is the hot setup.
so someone please steer me in the right direction, or suggest parts i havent found yet. remember, cost is the key to all this, as i only have 1500 left in the budget for the rest of the truck.
Michael
i am in the same bought as you, i have a monty carlo that is an old asfualt racer that i am changing springs on to autocross and drift, other then that i could not tell you whet you would need to do, thought about talking and see what the camro guys are doing, it might work?
What does the tall ball joint get you? Is it just for wheel clearance, or does it correct some suspension geometry issue?
The tall ball joint gives you a better camber curve and lowers the front roll center. It's not a bad idea if it's in the budget. As far as the greased steel arms, I only used them on racecars but they held up fine with regular greaseings. It's easy enough to do I would think giving them a couple squirts of grease every couple months would be ok, but check with the maker.
Speedway, Afco and Howe Racing all manufacture these style arms in a variety of sizes. The screw in ball joints are for an old Chrysler application and have the wrong taper for the GM spindles. The arms are usually available with the GM ball Joints if you ask. To mount the speedway upper arms, you will need cut off the frame mounts and change them to these
That involves cutting off the existing frame mounts and upper shock mount, welding a steel plate across the hole, and welding on the new mount. The upside os you can add a jacking bolt to adjust the corner weights in place of the upper shock mount. You also can locate the mount where you want it and pick the a arm lenght to get the geometry you want. The down side that you will need to make new upper and lower shock mounts and run rod end style shocks. This is done on a lot of circle track cars and the upper shock mount is moved to the roll cage and a new lower mount is welded on the lower control arm near the ball joint.
On a budget I'd go to the junkyard and get the biggest swaybar I could find. Look at Monte SS' and Trans Ams of any vintage for parts that would work, and a faster steering box, look in a trans am or Iroc camaro. On the cheap they will do the most good.
thanks for the tips guys.
the tall ball joints will get me negative camber gain instead of the positive it currently has, fix the ackerman and bump steer, make juliet and fries, and lower it another 3/4 of an inch. all great things. from what ive heard.
the new mounts are way too much work, especially for a dual purpose machine. so ill be looking at the UB machine pieces. the guy i talked to on the phone from them said that he didnt know how they would work on the street, but didnt see any reason they wouldnt with regular greasing.
my question is still wether or not i will need the uppers. i have heard some say you need narrower uppers, some say run the stockers, some say you need fully adjustable pieces. who do i believe? and how will i know before i tear the thing apart and then have to wait for a few weeks on parts? i already have about 3/8-1/2 inch of shims on the control arms, and am worried about too much of a shim stack as well.
let me know what you think.
Michael
To get everything you mention you will need the upper and lower joints. The Uppers will fix the camber curve, the lowers will help the bumpsteer. I would believe you still need the narrow arms but I've never seen the stock arms with the tall joints so I can't say for sure. Maybe you could try just the joints and see what the camber curve is before having the new arms made. If you know how long the upper arms should be I see no reason they need to be adjustable. Once you have the right lenght you aren't going to have to change them.
Replace the shim stacks with solid spacers. Instead of having a half inch pile of shims get a half inch thick piece of Aluminum. Drill a hole for the control arm bolt and place it in where the shims go. Also by having the hole instead if the slot it can't drop out should anything flex. I've seen it happen on occasion with enough tire.
Something else I want to try once I get my car back is a longer lower arm instead of a shorter top arm. If you get the lower arms from am early Camaro (71-81) they supposedly fit the G-body chassis if you swap them right to left and left to right. They should make the car about an inch wider which may help with the camber gain.
you know wally, i think your right. im just going to put it together and see what i get. i have spent the last three weeks obsessing over this and trying to find answers, none of wich exsist for what im trying to do. so i guess just do it. and if it desnt work, the truck will be down for a little while while i wait on parts.
thanks
Michael
Here are some pics of the last one we did many moons ago, '95 I think. It was an '80 Olds Cutlass. The Lower arms are stock with Chrysler screw in Ball Joints. Fabricated Upper arms, and the steering arms heated and bent to help fix the bumpsteer. We bent the steering arms, and moved the steering box and pitman arm to make the linkage move parallel to the ground.
