Steve
Steve New Reader
5/16/23 5:47 p.m.

Needing to get my butt behind the wheel of something that doesn't get 12mpg after selling the Passat, and still can cart the kiddo around reliably, I've starting looking beyond my mid life crisis car of an E39 540. Something something about mid 2000's BMW reliability and lack of cupholders and blah blah. Someday I hope, but probably not the best right now car. 

I've driven a few cars, a 2011 Outback (whoa that is a big car!), a 2011 Golf TDI 6spd, and what I am affectionately calling my "bad idea car", a red 2007 MS3. Mostly unmolested drivetrain, some nice suspension tweaks. It's fairly obnoxious with the owner before the current removing most of the resonators on the exhaust. But it drives just like you want a car like that to drive, it's tight, light, and makes all of the right noises. 

Thing is, I'm stuffing a toddler into this thing, granted, it is for short trips, but there is no beating the safety rating that the VW's carry, but you pay for it. Also, it's sporty but still a bit disconnected. The MS3 is an absolute riot. How safe is the Gen 1 chassis? I know the MS3's came with side air bags, but the side impact rating isn't impressive, even with the bags. The doors are, well the doors are as you would expect, they clang a bit. 

Help me see beyond the IIHS or NHSTA numbers, anybody have any first hand experience with the chassis in a wreck? I'm trying to make the best decision I can for the safety of my family, while also navigating a very inflated used car market and my inner child that wants a car that makes boost noises all the time. 

lnlds
lnlds Reader
5/16/23 10:21 p.m.

How about an e90 3-series naturally aspirated (maybe fly and drive)? Safer and modern-er than the e39 and probably a similar size. Still has bmw's i-6 and hydraulic steering. Or a 2g mazdaspeed3 since safety is a concern and pay the premium? Rx-8 is also an interesting option suicide doors for easy kid loading. I've read posts where people have fit 2 rear facing car seats and still have normal adult humans in the front.

One way I've been able to rationalize side impact ratings is that kids are essentially in they're own containment seat with that will move and absorb some of the energy from a side impact should the impact be severe enough to compromise the cabin. Additionally they sit more inboard so there's more room for intrusion. Or mount the car seat in the center.

 

DocRob
DocRob Reader
5/17/23 10:00 a.m.

I wouldn't buy another MS3. Not because of safety, but because of all the other things....I had a Gen2 for ~5 years from 2011-2016. For the most part I really loved the car...but it had many quirks that, in retrospect, really weren't positives. 

1) By the time I sold it, my MS3 was starting to smoke on startup, that was a consistent problem. I never saw a Gen1 that didn't smoke on startup. This tended to lead to premature turbo failure.

2) My car burned about 1/2 quart of oil between oil changes the whole time I owned it, because turbo (or so the story went...).

3) MS3s did not have oil catch cans installed at the factory, leading to a consistent carbon buildup in the intake. Because the direct injection never got any gas through the intake to clean it, it would get worse and worse, many MS3s owners regularly performed "Seafoam" cleanings of the intake to help combat this problem. I'm not a big fan of regularly maintenance being pouring solvents into the intake of a running engine....

4) If you want to modify the engine, fuel pump internals or a new fuel pump were absolutely necessary. the MS3 fuel system ran on the ragged edge of reliability from the beginning. How ragged edge? Swapping to a front mount intercooler and a cold air intake, could push the stock fuel pump to failure. 

5) The motor mounts were absolute garbage for hard driving. Most MS3s have eaten multiple sets of motor mounts at this point. Many guys (myself included) had to go to almost a hard mount to keep from breaking the mounts when driving hard. Increasing NVH and making the cars relatively uncomfortable to drive. 

6) Torque steer and tramlining was invented and perfected by the Mazdaspeed3. Trying to merge onto the freeway on an onramp that isn't glass smooth was always an interesting adventure. 

7) Finally, without an aftermarket blow off valve, you never hear the turbo, because the road noise inside the car was sufficiently loud to mask it. When you upgrade the engine mounts, you probably won't hear an aftermarket blow off valve. 

8) Alignments...The factory alignment, particularly in the rear is aggressive. Aftermarket suspension tends to push it to be more aggressive. I never got more than 16k miles out of a set of 300 TW summer tires, even rotating them every 1500 miles. Unless you take about 3-degrees of negative camber out of the back, you probably won't either. Plan for it to eat tires. 

____

Run, don't walk, away from the Mazdaspeed3. As a second car or something built for a specific purpose. Fine, but as a daily driver? A 15-year old MS3 is a recipe for irritation. 

 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
5/17/23 10:26 a.m.

In reply to DocRob :

I have not owned a MS3 but I agree with Doc. The 2.3t seems problematic. 

For me, with a young kid, a big safe vehicle was an '90 Infiniti Q45.   That was 6 years or more ago.  Now, here in the future I would avoid the Gen1 Q45s for DD due to parts availability.   But, I really would look at a '09-ish M35 or M45.  Highly overlooked vehicles that no one goes shopping for. Asking prices may be high but selling prices are much lower. 

Japanese, BMW 5 series size.  Torque makes up for the lack of manual trans. Some have paddle shift. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/17/23 11:23 a.m.

Driving a small car when many drive huge trucks and SUVs will always carry an inherent risk.

The new BRZ has pretty good safety ratings, but it's not uncommon around here to pull up to a stop sign and see a trucks bumper about equal with my head. So even the side curtain airbags aren't going to stop that. 

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
wngx50pe0g4FcwzhvFF43ROSOXtqh9Yg6O9e9yQkO5j0I0V5ZqiBABYN8c9h2MBr