Gentlemen, behold: The Toyobaru FT-86 Concept!

z31maniac wrote: Name a similarly fun car that is less than $25k? I can think of 4 (Genesis, Cooper S, Mazdaspeed 3, Cobalt SS) and only one is RWD. And the Genesis Coupe is a pig.

You forgot the V6 Mustang and WRX.

Look at the competition when you jump it up to $25-30k: Camaro Mustang GT Genesis Coupe V6 370Z

Every single one of those cars makes 300+ hp. How is Toyota gonna expect to sell this car against those? The only angle they have to charge that much is if it's light weight, and by that I mean under 2500 lbs.

Toyota is shooting themselves in the foot if they price it that high.

kinda spaced apart there...

ReverendDexter wrote: Toyota is shooting themselves in the foot if they price it that high.

Exactly. They'd corner the market if they could get an entry level model under $20,000. Hell, I think even the cheapest new Mustangs are tick over $20,000, and they boast well over 200hp. I think Hyundia sorta came real close to shooting themselves in the foot with the Mustang GT and almost 370Z priced Genesis coupes.

What happened to "cheap fun" in a new car? Or can't we place those words together anymore?

Who else saw the name and thought they'd ruined it with a Tercel engine before reading the article?

One can only hope they'll release a track model that is stripped out ala Lotus. I would hope that would lower the price to something a younger person could attain. But that would narrow the appeal to just the die hards and tuner boi's

Rusty_Rabbit84 wrote: kinda spaced apart there...

Hmmm whats that third pedle doing in a toyota ???

Damn, it sure looks like a Mazda to me. And I hope they fix the pedal placement too. Hard to believe they'd make a sports car and have the brake pedal that far away from the gas pedal. Good luck with heel/toe.

Kentetsu wrote: Hard to believe they'd make a sports car since they only make souless toasters

Their I fixed it for you

Its cool but it would be a lot cooler with titanium valvesprings, twin ball bearing turbos, a 6 speed sequential manual, limited slip differential, remote resevoir coilovers, brembo brakes, recaro seats, and cost thirty seven dollars and fifty three cents.

andrave wrote: Its cool but it would be a lot cooler with titanium valvesprings, twin ball bearing turbos, a 6 speed sequential manual, limited slip differential, remote resevoir coilovers, brembo brakes, recaro seats, and cost thirty seven dollars and fifty three cents.

You forgot a drysump.

MadScientistMatt wrote: Who else saw the name and thought they'd ruined it with a Tercel engine before reading the article?

FT-86 would actually indicate that its a corona with a land cruiser I6.

Ugh. Not about the car's looks (though it does kind of look like a mutant Martian catfish), but they are screwing up if they make this thing heavy (check), slow (questionable, but probably a check- it's a Toyota, and they forgot how to make fast cars a while back), and expensive (check). That's what killed all the Japanese performance cars 10-15 years ago. Everything was stupidly expensive and became heavier and heavier as the years wore on. Was the last-gen RX7 awesome? Sure. But it cost buckets of money- nearly 40k for the last year. Same deal with the Supra. $40k. That maybe doesn't sound like a lot now (well, to some people, but it sure as hell does to me...), but that's $52000 in 2008 dollars. That's a ton of freakin' money. The Z car has been getting fatter, more powerful, and more expensive for 30 years now, though, so maybe there's something to this.

Point? I don't know if I really have one. But I am seeing this going badly for Toyota. They probably just don't see the point in building a performance car that sells for $20k or less. I can understand the business logic- the margins are skinnier, and serving enthusiasts doesn't pay the electric bills.

Also, if this is to be branded "Toyota," they can't price it too low, or they will cannibalize Scion tC sales, ridiculous as that sounds. Personally, I think they should replace the polished turd that is the tC with this, price it where we want it around $20k, and build it somewhere here in the States. THAT would be cool.

I have hopes for this car. I owned several Toyota sports cars in the 80s and 90s when they actually made a few decent interesting cars, but when they killed the MKIV Supra, and made nothing but boring appliances, I was done with them. I like the RWD and styling on this car, but I really hope they give it 250-300HP base with room to grow.

skeeler wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Name a similarly fun car that is less than $25k? I can think of 4 (Genesis, Cooper S, Mazdaspeed 3, Cobalt SS) and only one is RWD. And the Genesis Coupe is a pig.

There's also the third-gen Miata, as long as you don't get the Grand Touring trim level or the PRHT.

Actually back when things started downhill for the automakers the local mazda dealer's internet sales department quoted my wife 25k + TTT for a hard top MX-5. We just weren't in a position to take advantage of it.

While far from perfect, It is still better than something like a camry. But I would still rather find an MR-2 Spyder, and at 2,150 Lb, beat that.

What I don't understand is that Toyota is good at building appliances, but it can't make small RWD appliances. Or at least it hasn't since the 80's.

Toyota, stick to your business model. Make a RWD appliance. For me.

I like it, it much better styling than the Genesis. The interior is too much for me but I am sure it will be toned way down if it ever sees production. Maybe some accents to break up the front end, there's a lot going on there but its not easy to see, It could be more obvious in real life though. I am betting against it being affordable also, the Koreans have taken over that segment.

Looks good. Now all they need to do is make it weigh 3700 lbs and give it drive-by-wire everything.

neon4891 wrote: While far from perfect, It is still better than something like a camry.

If this is as heavy as I fear it is, and if my only motor options are a 2 or 2.5L non-turbo motors. I'll take the Camry.

EDIT: Unless we're talking used and cheap enough to swap motors in...

I wish more people understood the "more fun to drive fast in a slow car" concept. I don't want 300hp in my daily driver, because that means I can't push it on the streets.

My foxbody is just about perfect (auto, vert, stock powertrain). It's slow enough that I can have fun pushing it without attracting too much attention from the fuzz, but fast enough to merge with traffic even on short on-ramps.

Maybe people are convinced they need so much power because they're so far removed from the driving experience that acceleration is the only feeling that hasn't been totally numbed out from new cars?

damn looks like a 370Z, BMW 335i, and hints of a Godzirra all got smashed together and out popped this thing with way less HP

ReverendDexter wrote: I wish more people understood the "more fun to drive fast in a slow car" concept. I don't *want* 300hp in my daily driver, because that means I can't push it on the streets.

I'd be happy with a 200 hp car, but it had better weigh less than 3000 pounds. [edit] No, that's still too much. Make it 2600.[/edit]

I dig the way the car looks (although the interior is very concept-ey.) but 30 large is too much money, IMHO. I was hoping for something closer to the early rumors in terms of weight and cost. My inner Subaru and Hachi Roku fanbois are crying tonight.

What's going on with the shift boot, anyway?

ReverendDexter wrote: I wish more people understood the "more fun to drive fast in a slow car" concept. I don't *want* 300hp in my daily driver, because that means I can't push it on the streets.

I'd say that's overly simplistic. An underpowered but heavy car is slow. But still not fun. A light, relatively nimble car can be underpowered and slow, and still tons of fun. (In fact, I'd argue more fun for exactly the reasons you mention).

My '86 MR2 was slow and underpowered by modern standards. It was a blast. Heck my old FWD chevy nova (the ones that were rebadged FWD corollas) was fun to push, and dreadfully slow. Figured I'd keep the examples to slow but fun cars in the Toyota family. All the Toyotas I've ever personally owned have been slow but fun. They've also all been light by modern standards.

On the other hand I've owned a lot of big, slow, heavy cars. They're mostly slow and not fun.

I think that the expectation of $20k RWD coupe is chasing a unicorn. My SVT Focus, a 170 hp FWD hatch, was $18k 7 years ago. Nowadays 200 hp is considered pretty weak, yet the expectation is that an engine more powerful than that as well as a chassis to accommodate it should cost just about the same as my Focus did when it was new. Sorry, but it just won't happen.