Going to the Nurburgring - should I do a track day or public day? And anything else?

Sadly, I have to miss the Lemons NJ race this year. My wife wants to go visit her sister in the Netherlands. However! In exchange I get to go to the Nurburgring and spend a day on the track. In looking at the rent4ring cars and the Nurburgring schedule, it looks like it's only a little more expensive to do a track day instead of a Touristfahrten (public day). I emailed them to find out the specific differences, but the big differences I've seen is "flying laps," meaning I don't have to stop and wait in line and present a ticket each time I go around, and the track day will be lower traffic with only cars (no buses, no motorcycles).

Anybody know which would be more fun? Any advantages or disadvantages to each that you know of?

I also have to pick the car, they have the Swift, BRZ, BMW 125 (auto only), Artega GT, and BMW M3 RS. I think I'll go for the BRZ, being RWD and manual transmission and not too expensive or ridiculously fast. Any suggestions there?

Also, anything else I should check out when I go? I'll be going there in August.

I don't have enough experience to compare and contrast; all I've done is an afternoon Touristenfarhten with a Rent 4 Ring Swift as I wrote about here. It was only my second time on a track, so while I had a wonderful time, my experience will probably be only partially useful to someone more able to get right down to business...

My run was on a Sunday afternoon, and was surprisingly not overrun. I had to pull off after each lap, but didn't have to wait long to get back on. I did only barely have time to get my six laps in before they closed due to a couple of track closures due to accidents. Early on I ended up mostly glued to the right and would glue myself over there very early when I saw someone in the rearview. It took me 'til my third lap to get my speed up to where I could see someone in the rear view and realize it would be a few more corners before they actually caught me.

I didn't get held up very much, but I did wind up behind motorcycles twice which took me a long time to pass because they'd pull away on the straights and they didn't move over to let me by in the corners for a while...

The best news is that I suspect you'll have a fantastic time whichever way you go. It's a beautiful track in a beautiful setting. I very much hope to go back when I've had more track time.

I think R4R has expanded a bit (certainly their car selection) since I went. At the time I went, doing a track day and/or adding instruction (which I'd really wanted to do) ended up being hideously expensive. Also a bummer, at that point they were deep in the throes of the new (now exiting) management, and R4R couldn't provide instruction; that had to be hired through the track

I came, I saw, I got passed by a lot of 911s.

Advice I got was to do your best to avoid weekends, especially during peak season. For a regular open day, Mondays and Fridays are typically the best. The ring is open longer, but it's still a weekday, so the people showing up are more hardcore and fewer bus tourists. Much lower traffic.

If you can do a track day for around the same price, I'd be all over that.

It is a big course. You will not learn the whole thing in a day. Treat it less like a typical roadcourse, and more like an awesomely perfect back road that happens to have been made one-way and limited access.

Hey, thanks for the input guys! The 'ring seems to mostly only open short (like 2.5 hour) stints every week day in August, so if I did a public day it would have to be the weekend or two evenings and that being the "high season," I'm getting input from more than one source that says avoid the weekends. So I think I'll aim for the weekday track day. It's a couple hundred Euros more total but that seems really worth it for me.

I've got maybe 25 - 30 hours of track time (Lemons) under my belt, so I know the mechanics of driving on a track okay. I'm planning on getting an instructor for at least a couple laps, and later in the day having a passenger here or there. Depends on who is willing to get in the car with me. ;-)

The rent4ring guys are really nice and he suggested the Swift stage2 for a ring newbie, and even said choosing an auto transmission makes it easier to focus on learning the track, but forget that, I'd rather enjoy it more. I've only driven an auto on track a couple times and it was definitely less rewarding than a stick.

Honestly, whichever you do is going to be awesome. Just figure out the best time to be there on a weekday (weekends suck), and maybe schedule a rain day just in case.

Rent4Ring is awesome, and they szprechen sie GRM.

And Forza or GT5 is actually a pretty good way to learn some of the rhythms and flow of the track. It can never properly convey how impossibly narrow it is in sections, or how the dips and crests load and lighten the car, but it can give you a pretty good idea of turn sequences and tricky spots so you aren't out there completely blind.

But don't forget, just when you think you've started learning the track is when it bites you.

Above all, have fun and drive within your limits.

jg

dculberson wrote: The 'ring seems to mostly only open short (like 2.5 hour) stints every week day in August, so if I did a public day it would have to be the weekend or two evenings and that being the "high season," I'm getting input from more than one source that says avoid the weekends. So I think I'll aim for the weekday track day. It's a couple hundred Euros more total but that seems really worth it for me.

Check how long it is open on Fridays and Mondays. I did a Friday, and I believe it was open 6 hours, as opposed to the usual 2.5 for a weekday or 8 for a weekend.

You should play the "male organ" game as vehemently as you can

Sorry to interrupt an otherwise perfect thread/

I just wanted to say that I can thank you (fellow) nuts for turning me on to the realization that this was a possibility- I'm going to Europe in mid-June with some friends and we're going to be in Cologne for a few days and are now planning a day trip down to the Nurburgring so I can hopefully make it out and around it a few times. It's pretty funny actually- I think my friends who are going on the trip with me are almost as excited as I am about the possibility even though they'd just be riding shotgun.

One thing I'm curious about for those who have done it with cars from Rent4Ring- do you have to and/or is it wise to reserve the car ahead of time? I'm only going to have one day I can make it down there and worry that day will be the one day of the trip it just pours rain. I'm only planning on a Stage 1 Swift since I'm not the most experienced track driver.

Mind disclosing how much this is going to cost you?

In reply to Ashyukun:

I don't know about R4R reservations... My trip was pretty tightly scheduled, so I had my 'ring day booked a month or two ahead as a matter of course...

They were very helpful and friendly; I'd just ping them with that sort of question if it isn't clear from their website.

If you can't crack 10 minutes, you will be shamed by all on the board.

I'm kidding of course, have much fun and get some video and pictures!

I'll be in Germany in June, and I hope to make the trip as well.

Enyar wrote: Mind disclosing how much this is going to cost you?

A Stage 1 Suzuki Swift for 2 hours (I'll be there on a Monday, so the 'Ring is only open 2 hours for runs...) and 4 lap tickets is 299 Euros, or about $400. There will likely be other costs involved (transport to Nurburg, etc.) but that's the core of the cost. $100 a lap on the Nurburgring though is something I can more than deal with for the rare experience that it will be- especially when you consider that it's almost a pittance compared to the cost of my flights there and back.

ransom- I'm figuring that's what I'm going to be doing as well. I'll do some more digging and if I can't find what I'm looking for I'll get in touch with them.

One thing that I've seen conflicting info on in reading up on accounts of driving it- I've seen it said that video cameras aren't allowed, but I'm pretty sure I've seen GoPro video (including here) of runs- I'd LOVE to take a few GoPros and record my time on the track, but wouldn't want to waste the space in my luggage if they're not allowed...

I'm also on the fence as to whether I should get a Stage 1 Swift or a Stage 2. The Stage 2 is only $60 or so more but looks to be a lot more race-prepped and has semi-slicks vs. the performance street tires the Stage 1 has. On the other hand, my track experience is VERY limited, so there's a certain logic to thinking I should just get the Stage 1 so I'm not as likely to push it too hard and overdo it...

The last I heard video cameras were banned except for ones you rent from a kiosk at the track. Apparently, this kiosk is almost never open. I think in the flurry of activity and my lateness of arrival, I didn't look for it very hard.

I was going to point out Ben Lovejoy's Nordschleife site as a great source of information, but while there is a lot of really good info there, they don't seem to have any updates beyond a total ban on cameras [EDIT: in cars; you can take all the pics you want at the track outside the car].

I figure there may be some things in flux soon as the totally fouled up management of the last few years is extricated from the business of running the 'ring... But it may be a while.

I rented a Stage 2 Swift. It was not overwhelmingly powerful (nor did I really wish for more power with my learning going on, except when I got stuck behind bikes a couple of times), and I found the prep to make it if anything probably a more comfortable tool for the job. This was my second ever time on a track and I was very conscious of not getting carried away, so the extra grip was more of a safety margin booster than a temptation to go too fast. It was not at all wallowy and had a nice, firm brake pedal. It's arguable that it's just a better set up tool for a nice drive on a winding road, but then I didn't drive a Stage I to compare it to...

dculberson, Sorry you're missing the NJ race, but I'm sure the wagovan will be happy to keep all 4s on the pavement...

Have an awesome time at the Ring. Why not go for the BMW?

Klayfish, you know it will want some clay and you might have to be the one to deliver since I'll be gone. Watch turn 5!! Oh wait, they're doing Thunderbolt aren't they? Shoooot, well, you'll find a place to go off. Just don't hit anything.

If you mean why not get the BWM 128i, it's because it's a minimally prepped automatic only car. If you meant why not the M3 RS, it's because not only is in bonkers and likely to kill me, it's literally twice as much money to rent compared to the BRZ.

@Enyar: I am planning on a full day (12 laps) track day in the BRZ. It's 1099 euros, or roughly an ass ton of money. But it's a bucket list item, and I'm unlikely to be back in Germany this decade, so why mess around?

@JG: I need to get a wheel for my xbox and start practicing!!

Everyone, thanks for your input. It was really helpful!

Oh, and no way am I going to try to crack 10 minutes. I'm gonna take it one turn at a time. Lord knows it will be hard enough not to check my lap times though.

I know the rumor was that we're running Thunderbolt, but don't know it's been confirmed yet. That'll be awesome, though I was kind of looking forward to going back to a track I know (at least I'll be familiar with Summit).

I was thinking the M3, but if it's twice the money, I'd be with you. The BRZ will be fun...hell it's the Ring. Pretty much any car will be fun. Be curious to hear what traffic is like on track.

What is the price difference on the BRZ vs. the Swift?

I absolutely would not rent a high-power super performance machine for there. The ring is intimidating enough without a crazy powerful machine to frighten you. You will be limited by your knowledge of the track, not the car. Do it in something you'll be able to come closer to the limits on for longer.

Heck, a slower car means you'll actually get a chance to appreciate how gorgeous the place is while you're on those longer straits.

I wanted to rent a Caterham they had, but the R4R guys actually talked me out of it because it would be too much car for a first timer on the ring. Yes, even a first timer with W2W experience. I considered renting an MX-5, but the price difference wasn't quite worth it to me. I was quite pleased with the swift. Only thing that could have made it better would have been RWD. I liked the tall, more upright profile of the Swift. Gave me a better view of the track. Also happy to have a hard top, since it started raining by the end of the day.

While you're at it, take the Mrs. down a bit south into wine country. We stayed at a Landhaus/Winery in a tiny town called Valwig. If you like white wines, the Germans make some excellent Riesling. I prefer reds, but these were some of the best whites I've ever had.

The Swift would be 200 Euros less than the BRZ, 899 versus 1099.

My main reason for choosing the BRZ is that it's rear wheel drive. I also don't think it's crazy powerful, that's one of the main reasons for staying away from the M3 / etc. 200hp is respectable but it's not exactly warp drive territory. It is a good 60hp more than the Swift though, I think. I would like the upright seating position, as would my passengers, but I'm not sure it's worth trading for FWD.

We're planning on going to Munich, I'll ask her about the wine country but based on our New Zealand winery tours (where she got a horrible hangover) she might not want to go winery hopping. ;-)

I meant to add - I have about 30 hours on W2W track experience in Lemons, but nothing outside of Lemons. I am hoping I'm not fooling myself that the BRZ is "reasonable" for me. Do you think it's going to kick my ass?

From what I've heard, I don't think that BRZ will kick your ass. Power is respectable but it certainly isn't a rocketship that is going to surprise you with greater than expected speed. I would totally pay that price difference for RWD.

If you are going to Munich, I recommend a side-jaunt over the Bamberg. It is probably the most gorgeous city in Germany, and one of the least touristy. It was the largest city in Germany that did not get bombed during the war. As such, it still maintains its Medieval architecture and cathedral. Cultural history: it is the capitol of Frankonia, which still refuses to admit they were ever conquered by the Bavarians, who still refuse to admit they were ever conquered by the rest of Germany. Also famous for their regional style of Rauchbier (smoked beer).

Awesome tip! We'll have to check out Bamberg. And the local characters. ;-)

I also highly recommend the Biergarten at the Schneider Weisse brewery. They were my favorite brewery in Germany. The Hopfenweisse and Aventinus are excellent. The Eisbock is truly exceptional.

http://www.weisses-brauhaus-kelheim.de/ (Better details)
http://www.schneider-weisse.de/index.php?lang=en&tpl=brauerei.brauhaeusser (In English)