Gonna have to get a welder.

What is the cheapest way for me to stick two pieces of sheet metal together?

I am keeping an eye on CL for deals but most of the ones I see on there are more than I need. Please let me know what your experience is with cheap welders.

Would flux core be OK for sheet metal work or should I only be looking at mig?

Flux core makes for uuuuuuugly welds, I'd get a nice MIG.

For that level of work, I can't help but recommend some of the less expensive 110v set-ups for the beginner.

Per

Per Schroeder wrote: For that level of work, I can't help but recommend some of the less expensive 110v set-ups for the beginner. Per

Such as?

nicksta43 wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: For that level of work, I can't help but recommend some of the less expensive 110v set-ups for the beginner. Per

Such as?

I have a Hobart 140. It was on sale when I bought it. When I use it with gas, it allows me to produce nice looking, strong welds.

That, or the HF mig set-up or the Eastwood 135. I have the latter. No secret that I like it—and have rebuilt half of the Classic Motorsports 2002 using it.

Per

Realgear 140 you can get it at GTS Weldco/Praxair mine was $299 2 years ago comes with MIG and flux wire, a regulator, and, the welder. Ive run at least 200lb of wire through it everything from sheet metal to exhaust to cages and its never missed a beat struggles a little with 1/4 steel but any 110v machine will.

+1 on the hobart, i've had one for years and for a fix like this it will be perfect

for an e21.. that is rust free

I've heard bad things about the duty cycle on the HF welders, be careful about that.

If you do get a cheap flux core setup, make sure you can add gas later. Much nicer.

I honestly think a flux core only welder is a waste of money. Go for a basic Lincoln, Hobart, or Miller. 110 volt, 135 amp, make welds that look good and ARE good. Yeah, more money, but you don't buy 25.00 helmets do you?

mad_machine wrote: for an e21.. that is rust free

Tell me about it. This thing is way more solid than my 82 was. I had to rebuild everything from the bottom of the doors down on that one. I wish I could have got to this one before the jackass PO let it sit out in a field next to a creek for a couple of years.

I don't see daylight through any of that rust. Am I missing it? If the rust is pinholes or no-holes on those areas, I'd recommend cleaning it REALLY well and PORing it. Guys in the rust belt would LOVE a car with that little rust.

Bryce

In reply to Nashco:

The holes are in the body. That big spot all the way to the left is a reinforced jacking point that I can stick my finger through.

All my sheet metal has been done with MIG.

I'll be the curmudgeonly one, though, and point out that most of the notable sheet metal guys (e.g. Covell) prefer gas welding (i.e. oxy-acetylene) for sheet. Supposedly, it makes softer welds that are less likely to crack when you work the metal afterwards with an english wheel, hammer and dolly, pleneshing hammer, shrinker, etc. It also is supposed to have a heat affected area that is smaller, resulting in less distortion/oil canning.

Maybe somebody with lots of experience in high end restorations (paging Transmaro) can chime in to confirm/correct this stuff.

First off, unless you're doing a restoration and/or planning to keep that car forever, I'd POR-15 it if it's little pinholey stuff or slap a patch panel over it if the holes are bigger and keep driving it.

Secondly, Hobart 140. Basically a Miller and even uses a Miller torch. Had mine for about 8 years now and love it. It's been pulled into service for a million different projects and has never let me down once.

I am going to recommend the Lincoln Electric Weld Pak 140 HD. I have one and it has been great. The down side to it is you only have 4 selectable heat settings and you then have to dial in the wire speed. For some one starting out is is nice to have infinitely adjustable heat setting but in reality once I got comfortable welding you really don't need the infinitely adjustable heat settings. The presets work fine and by making minor adjustments to the wire speed you can quickly dial in the proper setting. In fact I think that limiting the number of settings it forces you to learn how to weld. I actually learned on a 220 snap on unit and I found my self constantly fiddling with the heat and wire settings and it actually detracted from my learning to weld. An old timer taught me to set the heat to the range that the metal thickness falls in to and then dial the wire speed in depending on where the thickness of the metal you are welding falls in the heat range you are set to. This made welding a snap. The other thing is to listen for the sound of sizzling bacon. IF you here "that sound" you got the settings correct. (I learned this from an instructor at the Lincoln welding school) Sounds weird but it is absolutely the truth.

I use the flux core 99.9 percent of the time on my unit. It has the ability to add gas and I have used it a couple of times but the other 99.9 percent of the time I am bringing the welder to what I am welding and lunging a tank is a PITA. I got mine used (open box used once) for $300 with an auto darkening helmet (spend the $$$ on the auto darkening helmet if you don't get one with the welder)

110 volt is more than enough to weld sheet metal / tack weld etc. My welder paid for its self in a matter of months. Having the ability to stick metal together opened up a whole new set of repair possibilities. It is also my go to tool for removal of stuck / sheered off studs and bolts. Just weld a nut on to the end and the heat from the weld will usually free things up. Put wrench on newly installed nut and out they come.

Exhaust repairs are now almost fun. Fixed all sorts of various household things over the years. It has saved my gas grill 3-4x. I just keep welding on steel angle iron or tube steel to the places that rust out. This alown has paid for the welder at least 2x over.

Unless you are going to be fabricating cadges or welding 1/4" steel regularly a 110 volt flux core from a good manufacturer is all you need. As others have said just make sure what ever you get has the ability to add gas. It does make the welds much cleaner but for most of the welds I do the extra minute or two required to clean up the flux core weld is not an issue.

Another reason I got mine was that I can easily take it to the track. Having access to a welder during a 24 hour race is invaluable. At one race once the word got out I had it I found my self welding many other peoples stuff from tacking brackets on to fenders to removing stuck studs. I made a bunch of new friends that day.

The bottom line is don't be cheep with this purchase pay the extra $$$ for a good name brand unit. You can really tell the difference. Also brand name units like Lincoln make getting parts and supplies much easier. Home Depot sells wire and tips for the Lincoln units and they are cheep$$$$ and open nights and weekends when you will more than likely be using the welder. Running out of wire on a Sunday afternoon is no problem for me just go to HD and get more (I try to keep an extra unopened spool on the shelf at all times).

Anyway I have babbled on to much. Get one. Mine is way up near the top of my fun / favorite tools that I have.

CLynn85 wrote: First off, unless you're doing a restoration and/or planning to keep that car forever, I'd POR-15 it if it's little pinholey stuff or slap a patch panel over it if the holes are bigger and keep driving it.

A lot of people have said it is to far gone to put this much effort into. And the car really has no value, although prices for the very best examples have been on the rise here lately. If I sell it ro keep it for ever really has no bearing on how I'm going to repair it. This is what I like to do. I will take what I learned on the last one and put that info to good use on this one. And hopefully I'll put what I learn on this one to good use on the next. Wether or not I keep it there will be a next because this is what I do. I didn't buy this car as an investment or to flip like wheeler dealers. I bought it as a hobby/toy. I enjoy doing bodywork, I enjoy fixing all the little crap that you get when you play with old cars. If I do sell it after I get done playing with it I know I will never be able to even come close to breaking even moneywise with it. And I'm OK with that. I'm likely to go through all this and then paint it with rustoleum or tractor paint or I might get some high dollar PPG paint thats really not the point.

There is several spots on the body that have holes through that will need cut out and replaced. One hole is through the top of the hood, window channels front and rear, front fenders, trunk channel and the rear valance all have places that will need cut out. The rear wheel wells and most of the floor pan will be POR'd. It's just that spot in the pan all the way to the left that will have to be cut out. It's actually the jacking point that is reinforced underneath. It's soft enough to poke my finger through without much effort.

Thanks for all the suggestions on welders. I would like to say that I am not new to welding. I used to have access to some very nice equipment but none of it was mine and I live five hours away from it now.

If you're not going for show or restore, and just want functional/sealing, just clean up the areas and fiberglass it. That's what I did with my e30.

That said, I only did that because I don't have a welder either, and I'm reasonably good at fiberglass work

Yep.. Start googling metal shaping..

This guys DVD is well worth the money..

http://www.metalshapingzone.com/shop/page/2?shop_param=

And I just must throw my 2 cent in again.. Unless you are buying my cheap welder from me.. DONT BUY ONE...

I had gotten by with a cheapo Clarke 130EN in my shop until recently.. I had my dads old Miller 200 and a Miller 35 in the shop for most of it.. and the clarke did 'just fine' I even got used to it and can lay down nice looking properly penetrated welds with the best of them.. But it just isn't the same.. It requires more thought and care to lay down an 'acceptable' weld.. So the whole time instead of trying to go from Good to great.. You are balancing b/t acceptable and alright...

Buy Miller, Lincoln, Hobart.. Buy a used one... Use it for years. then sell it for what you paid for it if not more.

If you buy a cheap junky Chinese welder.. when you want to sell it.. Not worth a darn thing.. Oh.. and good luck getting parts in a few years.. You have nothing when you are done using it.. and have saved nothing.. Unless of course the thing was free..

You won't regret buying a nice welder..

One to look for which go cheap because people don't know what they are.. but they are VERY nice machines..

ESAB.. As good of machines as anything out there.. but the brand recognition just isn't there.. so you can pick them up cheap used...

I got the cheap H-F flux-core welder knowing full well what I was getting into. For the money ($100) it is a competent way to stick two pieces of metal together. Yes the welds have a fair bit of spatter around them, but you can clean them up and they don't look bad at all.

It may be that I just need more practice, but for sheet metal work, especially anything that has to look good, I think a welder with more adjustability would be nice. The H-F unit has just two settings--60 and 90 amps, and the 60-amp setting is all but useless, even on sheet metal. No matter where I set the wire feed speed, I wasn't real happy with my plug welds in body panels. And of course, using gas makes for a much nicer weld with a lot less clean-up.

irish44j wrote: If you're not going for show or restore, and just want functional/sealing, just clean up the areas and fiberglass it. That's what I did with my e30. That said, I only did that because I don't have a welder either, and I'm reasonably good at fiberglass work

Interesting, I've played with fiberglass and made a few one off parts with it. I even replace a rotten transom on a 14' boat.

Could you detail for me or point me in the right direction to learn how to stick fiberglass to metal?