JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Dork
12/12/13 5:39 p.m.

So, I've got a friend/co-worker who has a 2007 Passat wagon with 90k. Pretty sure it's the VR6, but not positive. When he started working with me, I used to ask him lots of questions about the service history because almost everyone I know with VWs from this era have big issues with them. He would always tell me how great the car was and how it never gave him any problems, so I figured he got one of the good ones.

Well a couple days ago he mentioned that it was in the shop and this evening he calls me up asking for advice. Here's what he told me:

Apparently, he was driving around town earlier in the week when the CEL came on and the car went into limp mode. He takes it to a shop (didn't ask which one) and they pull the code "mis-aligned camshaft" was what he told me it was.

The shop tells him he needs a new timing chain assembly and oil pump. They also pulled the valve cover and told him that there was a lot of sludge buildup and that he needs a new cylinder head or else the engine might not make it off the lot. My friend confirms that there was indeed some sludge build up in the head.

I asked if they checked the cam bearings and he says they did and they were fine.

He has an extended warranty that will cover the timing chain replacement, but would be on the hook for ~$5k for a new cylinder head if he went that route.

I told him that the sludge issue is usually something that builds up over a long period of time and I didn't see that necessarily being the cause of his original issue. (Though I could see the potential for that if the car has a hydraulic timing chain tensioner or something like that which was clogged up).

Anyway, I told him I thought it was a little silly to spend $5k on fixing a sludge issue that might not have caused any of his problems in the first place and that he should just take care of whatever the timing issue is and keep driving the car after a few frequent oil changes. He said he'd rather just get a new car if a dealership would take it on trade. That sounded like an even better option - just get it running again and trade it in.

I also told him that I thought it was at least as likely that the original problem was caused by a bad cam position sensor, which is a $14 part and maybe and hour of labor(?).

So, best course of action seems to be, have the timing chain/oil pump replaced under warranty, replace the cam sensors if necessary and that should almost certainly take care of the engine code and get the car running again (right?). Then, drive it straight to the dealership and trade it in for something that's not from Germany. What do you guys think?

On another note, this guy grew up in Germany and will probably want another German car. He'll probably be looking at something that's 3-5 years old and I think another VW is a terrible idea, so what do I recommend instead? Personally, I wouldn't touch any German car from that era. If I had to pick, maybe a BMW 3-series wagon?

So, did I tell him the right thing or am I leading him astray? Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

Opti
Opti New Reader
12/12/13 5:58 p.m.

Alot of the VWs are known for sludge issues. If it was me I'd obviously have the stuff covered by warranty done and send the head off the be cleaned/checked. I have a local machine shop that does heads real cheap. I bet a NEW head for sludge issues is a little extreme especially is the bearings are in good shape, Id send it to a machine shop and tell them replace bad stuff and reuse everything that is serviceable.

JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Dork
12/12/13 6:11 p.m.

Ok, so the plot thickens (lol, sludge joke). I asked him more about the sludge and he sent me some pictures. It's really awful. I am totally shocked that an engine with 90k miles and regular maintenance can be this terrible. Really affirms my anti-VW views.

Anyway, based on this, I am much more inclined to agree with the mechanic that the head should be replaced. However, with the cost as high as $5k for that, I'd still be really tempted to just do the timing components and trade it in ASAP.

Thoughts?

Inside of valve cover: Inside head: Not sure WTF this is - oil pan? timing cover?

Paul_VR6
Paul_VR6 HalfDork
12/12/13 8:21 p.m.

Oil never changed?

06/07s have a wrong grade oil pump/intermediate shaft bolt that backs out and wreaks havok on the timing chain parts.

If he needs a head I have a few spares.

JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Dork
12/12/13 9:03 p.m.

In reply to Paul_VR6:

He says he changed it regularly, but he's the second owner.

I'll let you know if a spare head is in order - thanks.

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/12/13 9:52 p.m.

Probably Pennzoil at the local quickie lube.

JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Dork
12/12/13 10:04 p.m.

He's been using synthetic, but who knows what the PO did.

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/12/13 10:10 p.m.

Which synthetic? Is it a real synth or a BS hydro-cracked thing!

Just curious what might cause this.

JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Dork
12/12/13 10:16 p.m.

I'll ask him tomorrow.

Apparently this is pretty common with these engines though (oh, VW )

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6135910-2004-GLI-vr6-engine-codes-p0016-p0018

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4697380/page6

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
12/12/13 10:57 p.m.
JohnyHachi6 wrote: He says he changed it regularly, but he's the second owner.

What does "regularly" mean? Every 5K or every 20K?

JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Dork
12/12/13 11:05 p.m.

He said 8K. I think the factory interval is 10K.

Opti
Opti New Reader
12/13/13 2:54 a.m.

It's just sludge, have it cleaned, a good dip in the hot tank will fix that stuff. I still think a completely new head is way extreme.

Could try an oil cleaner, but with heavy sludge like that you run the risk of cloggin something, in the past doing something that bad we use a more mild oil cleaner multiple times.

cdowd
cdowd Reader
12/13/13 7:45 a.m.

And Saabs get a bad rap for sludge issues. I think a trip to the machine shop is in order for a good cleaning and then see what you have.

Ian F
Ian F UltimaDork
12/13/13 8:56 a.m.

Usually VW sludge issues can be traced back to incorrect oil. This is indicative of German cars in general it seems (I've seen it happen to MINI's when owners go cheap on oil). Plan on spending $ on oil. My VW has well over 300K miles on it with 10K mile OCI. The valve cover practically looks new. The only person who has ever changed the oil has been me and I always use VW-rated (some 500 code) oil. For the first 4 years or so I owned the car, I had to buy oil from a local dealer as local stores never carried it.

Not that any of this helps your buddy, and VW's can be prone to other issues, but in my experience with modern VW's, sludging is a user-error problem 99% of the time.

Paul_VR6
Paul_VR6 HalfDork
12/13/13 9:08 a.m.

I agree either oil type or change interval is the problem. Once VW got their motors to stop leaking oil everywhere (continuous oil change) this seems to be commonplace.

JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Dork
12/13/13 9:35 a.m.

Ok, thanks for the tips guys. Sounds like a trip to the machine shop is worth looking into.

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
I9oMsnRWhkjsk6XKD8Zi0BleFmdwwGdaZftUPDbOl4gFZLSCi3aLk7SE73my97jG