Good WRX or cheap STI?

STI for $6k more than a wrx?  Yes please.

But also, financing a 15 year old Subaru?  NOPE.

To be honest, if you're considering financing just get the best, most well sorted STI you can at a monthly rate that you can afford. I see very little merit in financing a heap even if it does have the goodies that you want. 

Agree about the Evo being an infinitely better car, but good frickin luck finding one for $15k. Really kicking myself not buying one when they were that cheap a decade ago

You don't seem to be entertaining the Mitsubishi suggestions, but FWIW I looked forever for an AWD non-EVO and they were very rare. A number of them were false positives from sloppy dealers

Not trying to threadjack, but I'm about to go look at an Evo X GSR that's for sale in my town.  2013 with 100K.  Local Mitsu dealer is asking $25K and i'm not sure if that's crack-pipe priced or not.   All the horror stories about Subarus have made that option a non-starter for me. 

EDIT: NVM.. Just did an Autotrader search.. DAMN those things really don't depreciate do they?

1) Go for the STi, no questions asked. Actually hold on. 

2) Can you take time to save up for the STI and not have to finance? I once financed a 99 M3. Somehow the credit union was willing and gave me a 4% interest rate. I didn't need to at all, I had the cash, it was the only way to sell it to the ex-wife. With that being said, I wouldn't finance a 15+ year old Subaru, especially if that's your only vehicle. I would save that debt for a rainy day. 

3) Do you have any experience with Subarus? Working on them? Known issues? I had an 04 WRX Wagon at one point and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. I had a 2012 WRX hatch that I couldn't get rid of fast enough. A 2016 WRX I couldn't get rid of fast enough. The only one I ever wanted to keep was a 2015 STi and even then, it wasn't . I had positive equity in it and was buying a new home so it went bye bye. The reason why I couldn't stand them? Non-stop issues with all of them. If it wasn't a new car with 100s of squeaks and rattles from the interior, it was spewing bearing material during oil changes. The 04 was worse than my 99 M3. You'd fix one issue and another one would be created while in process of fixing said issue. Small world, the girl that bought it from me in DC, unbeknownst to me, was step-siblings to a close friend of mine in Florida. She shipped the car with her to Germany and I got weekly reminders of how much of a POS that car was. 

4) Would you be willing to entertain any other car? 

I've owned a lot of Subarus, including multiple of each of the cars you are considering. As mentioned, I would prepare financially for an engine replacement for either car if you plan to use it long term. Personally I would choose the STi not only because of the better hardware, but because it's easier to feel less underwater when it does come time to replace the engine. 

However, I'm not sure I would consider financing one of these. I have bought multiple STis from owners that couldn't afford to pay the shop to replace their engine and they still owed money on the car. If you can do it yourself, you can do an new OEM shortblock replacement and all the 'while you're in there' items for $2500-3000. It's not a terrible job in the realm of engine swaps. Rebuilds don't seem to last as long especially when you consider most people don't understand how to check everything once they've split the cases. 

Subarus still have a soft spot in my heart (but it's an abusive relationship)

First time...circa 2008

 

4) Would you be willing to entertain any other car? 

Absolutely. Subaru was just at the top of fairly large list. I don't think it is at the top any more after hearing all this......

Basically just want a fun manual car on the smaller side(3000lbs or less preferable) that is or can be made reliable. 

Currently in a 05 g35 sport sedan. I like the car and it has been fairly good to me but about every 3 or 4 years I get the itch to try out something else. 

I probably don't want to get into another Nissan or BMW right now. Some cars I have also looked into, 06ish civic SI, 95-99 neon dohc, chevy cobalt(but really only a super nice example), mazda 3 sedan and Corolla xrs.

I really love the sound of the subaru engines and I would probably attempt to build a custom UEL header for other cars to make them sound better. 

Suggestions within or beyond that list?

Daeldalus said:

 

4) Would you be willing to entertain any other car? 

Absolutely. Subaru was just at the top of fairly large list. I don't think it is at the top any more after hearing all this......

Basically just want a fun manual car on the smaller side(3000lbs or less preferable) that is or can be made reliable. 

Currently in a 05 g35 sport sedan. I like the car and it has been fairly good to me but about every 3 or 4 years I get the itch to try out something else. 

I probably don't want to get into another Nissan or BMW right now. Some cars I have also looked into, 06ish civic SI, 95-99 neon dohc, chevy cobalt(but really only a super nice example), mazda 3 sedan and Corolla xrs.

I really love the sound of the subaru engines and I would probably attempt to build a custom UEL header for other cars to make them sound better. 

 

Suggestions within or beyond that list?

You know the WRX and STI even of that generation are like 3200lbs, right?

Honestly the subaru engines are pretty reliable (the 2.0 at least) if left stock and maintaned well. The problem is that now at 20ish years old, getting one that's been maintained well its whole life is a crapshoot. And they kind of suck in stock form which is part of the reason that there's about three unmodified examples left in existence.

Daeldalus said:

 

4) Would you be willing to entertain any other car? 

Absolutely. Subaru was just at the top of fairly large list. I don't think it is at the top any more after hearing all this......

Basically just want a fun manual car on the smaller side(3000lbs or less preferable) that is or can be made reliable. 

Currently in a 05 g35 sport sedan. I like the car and it has been fairly good to me but about every 3 or 4 years I get the itch to try out something else. 

I probably don't want to get into another Nissan or BMW right now. Some cars I have also looked into, 06ish civic SI, 95-99 neon dohc, chevy cobalt(but really only a super nice example), mazda 3 sedan and Corolla xrs.

I really love the sound of the subaru engines and I would probably attempt to build a custom UEL header for other cars to make them sound better. 

 

Suggestions within or beyond that list?

A Honda running on 3 cylinders sounds like a Subaru. 

If you can find a clean 8th gen Civic Si, I would go that route. I have a soft spot for Subarus, but, based off the information you provided it might not be the best choice. WRX/STis are really fun cars, its the upkeep that makes your relationship with them tumultuous. If you don't mind turning wrenches and learning the ropes of maintaining one, go for it. If you're looking for a fun reliable car from that era, that aint it.

My 2 cents on the 8th Gen Si. If you can, go for a 09-11 sedan chassis. They handle slightly better than the coupe and you get all the nicer things from the mid-model refresh. 

My dad had an 05 Corolla XRS when I was in high school. I thought the chassis was impressive and the 8k rpm engine was fun, but iirc the engine would fall out of VVTI on some shifts. Also the seating position is a little high and it didn't have an LSD. What about a Mazdaspeed3 or a Jetta GLI? 

dannyp84 said:

My dad had an 05 Corolla XRS when I was in high school. I thought the chassis was impressive and the 8k rpm engine was fun, but iirc the engine would fall out of VVTI on some shifts. Also the seating position is a little high and it didn't have an LSD. What about a Mazdaspeed3 or a Jetta GLI? 

Not a fan of the styling on the ms3 hatchback. If they had a ms3 sedan I would love it. I have always heard that vw engines are time bombs and the cooling systems are a huge pain. 

The xrs seems like a super fun car. They are priced a bit high for their on paper performance though. 

dps214 said:

You know the WRX and STI even of that generation are like 3200lbs, right?

Honestly the subaru engines are pretty reliable (the 2.0 at least) if left stock and maintaned well. The problem is that now at 20ish years old, getting one that's been maintained well its whole life is a crapshoot. And they kind of suck in stock form which is part of the reason that there's about three unmodified examples left in existence.

Lots of STX WRX have scaled at <3000lb.  Barely, but 3000lb is a fair estimate for that era WRX

DirtyBird222 said:

If you can find a clean 8th gen Civic Si

I test drove a few of these and they are great cars.  Too bad finding a clean sedan is nearly impossible :(

Can you define "reliable"? Do you work on your own stuff? What's considered too much? Used engine swap? Diff swap?

I'm thinking that might help with the suggestion pool. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

I haven't seen anything  verbally degraded in this forum this much sincerely the last time the mob went after Frenchy.  

People are much nicer to Frenchy than they are to Subarus. Personally I like the Subaru better. 

06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:

Not trying to threadjack, but I'm about to go look at an Evo X GSR that's for sale in my town.  2013 with 100K.  Local Mitsu dealer is asking $25K and i'm not sure if that's crack-pipe priced or not.   All the horror stories about Subarus have made that option a non-starter for me. 

EDIT: NVM.. Just did an Autotrader search.. DAMN those things really don't depreciate do they?

If you think X are expensive, try looking for 9 (one year only) cars.  I can buy 2 x for a price of a good IX these days. 

Having said that, I would drive an X and IX back to back.  You can really feel the 350lb+ on the X. THe X has much nicer amenties - if you can call it that, but the IX is a much purer driving experience (think 4 door Elise). 

Irony is when I bought my 16 WRX new, my local dealer (largest EVO dealer in the US), couldn't give the X and the X FE away. They were so deeply discount.  (told you I was stupid).

Honestly if sub 3k is the goal, spend the extra money and find a GC 2.5RS.

There is a reason why they are worth so much.  They drive like magic.  WRXs are bloated, lumbering pigs after driving a nice GC.

My 2 cents on the 8th Gen Si. If you can, go for a 09-11 sedan chassis. They handle slightly better than the coupe and you get all the nicer things from the mid-model refresh. 

Great suggestion.

If one were to spend 12-16K, you can find good ones.

I know me and SCOTTYB text about them daily (we are both 8th gen Si sedan owners).  But personally, I don't think the Si competes with the WRX/STI/EVO, having owned all 3 platforms.  The Si is incredbly fun, cheap parts, and well rounded cars. The STI/EVO, is on another level of course. 

You could split the difference between the WRX and STI and look for a Legacy GT. A little bigger, but still a small car by today's standards. Close to WRX in price, with a detuned STI engine, stronger transmission than the WRX. Much nicer than either for a daily driver. Likely much cheaper insurance. Maybe luck out and find a Spec B with the 6 speed. 
 

I bought my Legacy GT new and had 140k nearly trouble free miles out of it. Had to replace the throw out bearing at 100k. Then at 140k it went bad, cracked ring lands. It was a terrific car up to that point. I don't think it's really a piston problem. It's the stock tune plus the stock ring gap is way too small for a turbo car. 
 

The reality is it is provably cheaper to buy an EVO long term, especially if you plan on mods and track time. 

Anytime someone mentions Subarus in this forum the responses are pretty predictable. I can't really argue with anyone's personal experiences so I'll offer my own.  We bought our 11 WRX in 2014 and for the past couple of years on a OTS stage II Cobb tune.  It's been one of the most reliable vehicles we've ever owned.  Beyond general maintenance it had a leaky steering rack.  Maybe I'm on borrowed time, but it's so endearing I'm having trouble letting it go even after 9 years.

I have a couple of theories why our ownership seems so different.  First, we bought it in mint condition with 30k miles.  The previous owner seems to take pretty good care of it.  Second, I'm halfway careful about how I maintain and drive the thing.  The oil gets checked.  I don't push it hard until it is at operational temp and I don't park it hot.  Basic care strategies for turbo cars seems to go a long way with these, but I get the idea there's a lot of irresponsible owners who think they have some sort of indestructible gymkhana machine.

The turbo EJ25 motors obviously have some design flaws.  I'm just not convinced it's the death sentence everyone makes it out to be.

Along the line of the legacy gt you could also look for a forester xt. You don't get the fancy six speed but it's the impreza chassis so you can bolt on the sti suspension and takeoff turbo, intercooler etc to get up to stock sti power. Mine is an automatic but I enjoy it as a daily.

I would much rather try to buzz a Forester around at speed than a Legacy.  You can really feel the difference in wheelbase, and rear suspension design.

Daeldalus said:

 

4) Would you be willing to entertain any other car? 

Absolutely. Subaru was just at the top of fairly large list. I don't think it is at the top any more after hearing all this......

Basically just want a fun manual car on the smaller side(3000lbs or less preferable) that is or can be made reliable. 

Currently in a 05 g35 sport sedan. I like the car and it has been fairly good to me but about every 3 or 4 years I get the itch to try out something else. 

I probably don't want to get into another Nissan or BMW right now. Some cars I have also looked into, 06ish civic SI, 95-99 neon dohc, chevy cobalt(but really only a super nice example), mazda 3 sedan and Corolla xrs.

I really love the sound of the subaru engines and I would probably attempt to build a custom UEL header for other cars to make them sound better. 

 

Suggestions within or beyond that list?

What don't you like about the G35 so far? I've been thinking that those or the G37 would be a nice balance between comfy daily and fun to take to track days. 

 

What don't you like about the G35 so far? I've been thinking that those or the G37 would be a nice balance between comfy daily and fun to take to track days. 

Actually dislike about the car? Not a whole lot. Seats tear if you look at them too hard. I have the revup engine which is stupidly expensive to replace. Bushings and ball joints wear out very fast even using premium parts. None of those things are big issues for me.

Really the main reason I am looking into other cars is because I have auto add and get bored predictably every 3-4 years