grassroots body panel adhesive?

I've heard some excellent things about the 3m panel adhesives. I went into NAPA today with the intent of buying some. The friendly NAPA guy said they had it, but it required you to buy a $300 'gun' just to use it.

I just assumed it came in a double syringe a la 5 minute epoxy.

I'm going to be fixing some rusty quarter panels and was hoping to give panel adhesive a go. Always wanted to try it.

Are there any panel adhesives that will do the trick that I can source locally that are grassroots friendly? (Ie, not spending $300 on a tool to apply the damn stuff!)

Also, while I have your attention, what do you use when Bondo is too thick, and high build primer is too thin?

That gun is a super duper air powered version for 300 bones. You can get a caulk gun type model for well under $100. It just depends on the size of tubes you want to use. I've already checked into this once before to fill in all the panel gaps on a dash so I could "glass" it, or in other words, sand it perfectly smooth and paint it.

As to the other, sounds like you need glazing putty. It spreads out really thin but much thicker then anything you can spray on.

Lead Free Body Solder. You can get it from Eastwood and a lot of other places.

If you are dead set on trying bonding agents, try mcmaster.com
They have adhesives that come in a range of sizes/strengths/temp ratings and cost.
The adhesives are not the expensive part as you have alreay found. The applicator is the part that you need to make sure you want to invest in.

If you really want ot go cheap, check out the outdoor construction adhesive at your local big box store. I have not used it myself, but it may do the trick and it will cost you less than $10 if you have to buy the caulk gun too.

I've always wondered how liquid nails compared to the 3m auto stuff.

I was looking into some to use on aluminum panels that are riveted to a steel space frame.

Liquid Nails of course came to mind. So I looked around on their site, and the LN-933 marbile, granite & solid surface adhesive seems like it should do the job.

3M 5200 is an all around wonderfull adhesive from the boating world. Available at Walmarts everywhere.

Lastly, there is the 3M 8115 body panel adhesive that you were looking for. $35 from Sumit racing. In the mix syringe dispenser.

I'm going to give 3M 5200 a go.

Fox, would you suggest applying it to bare metal, or priming, or priming and painting before?

Per Schroeder wrote: I've always wondered how liquid nails compared to the 3m auto stuff. I was looking into some to use on aluminum panels that are riveted to a steel space frame.

Four years ago I used the Eastwood rivet/panel adhesive setup on my Civic. I bought the stuff a long time before that and the adhesive went bad. I used Liquid Nails instead. The repair still looks perfect today. I don't have any pictures of it here at work, but can take some and post them. It was the lower body area in front of the rear wheels, and I attached it under the side molding, which is currently off. So the repair is visible. I am currently just starting a restoration on the car, and plan on replacing both rocker panels the same way. The great thing about this method is that you can paint the inner and back side of the outer panels before installation without burning the paint off by welding them on.

bravenrace wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: I've always wondered how liquid nails compared to the 3m auto stuff. I was looking into some to use on aluminum panels that are riveted to a steel space frame.

Four years ago I used the Eastwood rivet/panel adhesive setup on my Civic. I bought the stuff a long time before that and the adhesive went bad. I used Liquid Nails instead. The repair still looks perfect today. I don't have any pictures of it here at work, but can take some and post them. It was the lower body area in front of the rear wheels, and I attached it under the side molding, which is currently off. So the repair is visible. I am currently just starting a restoration on the car, and plan on replacing both rocker panels the same way. The great thing about this method is that you can paint the inner and back side of the outer panels before installation without burning the paint off by welding them on.

I have to do this exact same repair as well. Did you use rivets for the rocker repair? Also, do you recall which liquid nails you used?

Try looking at Lord.

http://www.lord.com/Products-and-Solutions/Adhesives.xml/663/4

We use some of their adhesives and the stuff is great. Kinda spendy though.

Just for future reference my local body shop supply rents the gun for $10 when you purchase the epoxy. Yours may also.

Taiden wrote: I'm going to give 3M 5200 a go. Fox, would you suggest applying it to bare metal, or priming, or priming and painting before?

Darned if I know. Might try it on two sample pieces and see which resists being ripped apart better.

Taiden wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: I've always wondered how liquid nails compared to the 3m auto stuff. I was looking into some to use on aluminum panels that are riveted to a steel space frame.

Four years ago I used the Eastwood rivet/panel adhesive setup on my Civic. I bought the stuff a long time before that and the adhesive went bad. I used Liquid Nails instead. The repair still looks perfect today. I don't have any pictures of it here at work, but can take some and post them. It was the lower body area in front of the rear wheels, and I attached it under the side molding, which is currently off. So the repair is visible. I am currently just starting a restoration on the car, and plan on replacing both rocker panels the same way. The great thing about this method is that you can paint the inner and back side of the outer panels before installation without burning the paint off by welding them on.

I have to do this exact same repair as well. Did you use rivets for the rocker repair? Also, do you recall which liquid nails you used?

The rivets are really just to hold it all in place while the adhesive sets up, although I imagine they help some too. But yes, I used them on the rocker flange as well as at the top. On the rocker, they stuck through to the other side, so long after the adhesive set up I ground them off from the other side and sprayed some undercoating over them. They are recessed, so on the outside you can just cover them, or make them look like a factory spot weld like I did. I don't remember what liquid nails I used, but I'll tell you this - It was whatever I had on the shelf in my basement. I didn't go out shopping for what I thought was the best kind.

My lord...

3m 8115 has a sheer strength of 4000 psi on prepped steel
3m 5200 has a sheer strength of 316 psi
liquid nails metal repair has a sheer strength of ">1000 psi"

That 8115 is no joke

Please keep us up-to-date on your progress. I've wanted to try this myself for awhile too.

thanks.

curious where you found those sheer strengths?

I like 3M's 08609 windshield urethane for sticking stuff together.

Technical Data Sheets!

I picked up some 5200. I'm gonna test it out on scrap first.

Well, I tested out some 5200. 3m p/n 05220 is the small tube of it. $17 at my NAPA.

I tested it on bare steel (sandblasted then acetone) and primered steel (sandblasted, then acetone, then two thin coats of rustoleum automotive primer).

The primered steel seemed to have a little more stick to it.

I was able to pry or twist apart the test pieces (3/4" x 3/4" adhered surface) really easily. But I was totally unable to shear the test pieces. I lifted the side of my 150 pound work bench and it did not give when I tried to shear it. Yet I was able to twist them or pry them apart with ease.

So, do I think it would work as a panel adhesive? Sure, why not. But if I'm doing a restomod or if I had more time and money I would use the 8115. That stuff looks to be insane.

I figured I'd share the "fix."

The fix isn't a fix as much as it's a "hide it from Mr. Inspector because I don't have enough time to fix it."

More "air quotes"

Here's the gaping rust hole.

Here's the patch panel I made.

Here's the patch panel mocked up.

Tomorrow I will be removing as much rust as possible, and then priming and painting. Monday I will apply the patch panel. I think that I am going to clamp the lower part to the existing seam with a few C clamps. I'm not sure how I'm going to clamp the part that follows the door yet, but I may check out the junkyard and try to salvage some speaker magnets.

Nice job on the patch panel! How did you make the curve? At least in the photo it seems to match the curve on the car pretty well.

Nice. Probably a better quick-fix than filling the offending hole with great stuff and bondo-ing over if the long-term plan is a more 'correct' fix.

+1 on the patch panel curve? Looks really good (amusingly, I'm posting from my work computer, but have to view the pics on my Droid since whatever host you're using is blocked by our firewall).

It's facebook, which is why it is blocked!

I just bent the panel using an old piece of straight exhaust as a form. It fits perfectly, I was surprised.

I will be posting up more pics later tonight. I've got a lot of my other patches done. I think I am going to be using the 3m marine adhesive and pop rivets where possible. The back is so rotted out in places that it would take days to fabricate new panels, so what I am doing is trying to coat some of the rust with a mixture of bondo and new patch panel.

ANYWAY! I'll post up more later.

My friendly local hole-in-the-wall body shop uses Liquid Nails polyurethane (brown stuff) on non-structural patch panels.

My dad and I hit them up for their secret and patched some holes in the floor of my Dodge using it. Worked fantastic.

1. Cut patch panel to fit. +1" or so of patch panel overlaying clean metal.

2. Cut rust out to clean metal.

3. Lay on a heavy bead of polyurethane.

4. Install patch panel with pop rivets.

5. Smear liquid nails out smooth, make sure to cover rivet heads well.

6. Allow to cure.

7. Paint and undercoat.

These repairs were performed 2 years ago and look perfect after 2 years of daily driver use in Wisconsin winters. I have another few to do this fall, as the floor is getting a bit thin in a few other places. We used a Grand Marquis hood for donor metal.

For structural or visible repairs I would probably do something different like pay a body shop, but for the floors of a beater truck with 261k on it, it was perfect.

The crap made for auto body will rip the metal before the adhesive gives way. I tried to remove a floor panel that had been bonded to a truck floor and literally ripped the old floor pan twisting and prying it off.

dunno how relevant it is but I've used corvette panel adhesive (yeah thats the name of it) to adhere fiberglass to steel for years now. It mixes and applies just like bond but its strong stuff. My local auto body shop provides it in quarts for not too much money.