Grassroots Dakar Truck? What say you?

With Dakar happening now, I find myself looking at the trucks and thinking evil thoughts. Check this out if you want some more awesomeness from last year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hao2Cl7G-QQ

From some research it looks like up until the last couple of years the formula for these monsters has been pretty simple, big motor/light weight (for something this big), leaf springs, big shocks and then of course safety stuff, cage, etc.

Because its fun and I love these sorts of exercises, what would be the dirtbag way to build something like this? or something say 60-80% of the way there? Is their some sort of medium/heavy duty 4wd truck in the US that you could play around with? Throw bigger tires and up the boost while tearing off as much as weight as possible?

Cheers!

sounds like fun

there must be some big military trucks that get 5 MPG  that go up for sale!

Good Luck

You're looking to recreate a Group T4.3 (T5) support truck? 

Starting points might be:

Fuso 4x4

A used Hino 500 (i think they were sold in the USA)

USFS Freightliner/BME Single Cab Type 3 Fire truck or "Brush Truck"

Freightliner FL60 4x4 Ammmmbuuuuulaaance (or firetruck) 

None of them would ever be cheap. Like...you could build racecars for the same price as one of these vehicles might cost just to start.  Another issue is that the modifications are so expensive that it's almost cheaper to buy something already built. When Monster Energy sponsored Robby Gordon to race the H3 T4.1 truck, the team bought a former MAN support truck. 

I'd want to figure out what a set of shock absorbers costs for these things before I even throw out ballpark numbers of what I think a "budget" T4.3 build would cost. $50k almost seems like it's too low for even the most bargain of bargains. 

From https://fsd.servicemax.com/2014/01/16/cool-truck-kamaz-diesel-trucks/"While a standard issue Kamaz truck can cost upwards of $30,000, hand built versions of their rally race and support vehicles can cost anywhere from $250,000 to $450,000. These racer trucks, are, of course, souped up: packed with endurance race components like a turbo diesel engine, race shocks, forged alloy wheels, and Michelin XZL tires."

In case you're wondering: Michelin XZL's cost anywhere from $2,000-$4,000 a piece. So just install tires on our "grassroots" T4.3 would cost us $8,000.

AWD Denali complete driveline donor + that free Forward-Control Jeep out of New Jersey + big dumb wheel & tire package + someone really good at electrical system rebuild/troubleshooting work. 

Bespoke ladder frame, I'm going 4 link front and rear, drive train from a late model 7.3l Godzilla F-2/3/450, probably air bags, hope Fox, King, Profender, or someone will sponsor shocks and tuning, then sticking a Kaiser M715 or 725 body on it.

Not that I've put too much thought into this every year but an S&S Army truck would be a good start. If I was going from scratch to actually race and had a bit of cash I'd start with a single axle Mack because USA (I know they've been Renaults most of my life humor me).  For power I'd have a Series 60 Detroit tuned to about 1100 hp,  a friend runs one pulling a quad axle dump trailer and it pulls hard fully loaded. It would be connected to an Allison auto, transfer case and axles from s&s.  Suspension would be upsized monster truck four links at both ends on big coils. I'd paint it green with a red frame like every Mack garbage truck was when I was a kid with a little too much chrome for a racer and go put on a show chasing the Russians. 
 

In reply to pheller :

I was searching for the trucks you have listed & encountered this. It was too cool not to share!

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to pheller :

I was searching for the trucks you have listed & encountered this. It was too cool not to share!

They do not get stuck. I watched a Whistlindiesel youtube where he got to drive one. Only reason I would watch that guy.

Find a steel soldier with the tires you want. It'll be a good starting platform for a frame and save you thousands on tire costs.

I'd go for something like an  FMTV

So, I think about this a decent amount too.  In theory, the same math one might do for any other offroad/rally suspension holds true.  Many of these big truck are leaf springs, so you get a custom spring pack, figure out how much travel the chassis can support, get some shocks valved about right, and awayyyyy we go.  Alternatively, Reiger offers suspension for some of the more popular support truck platforms so there could even be off the shelf solutions for something like a Fuso.

After that, power is easy- plenty of diesel tuners out there to tell you how to make more smoke and noise.  

Dakar truck on a budget?

e30, obviously.

It would be an interesting exercise.  To build a full on proper racer, I suspect would get veeerrrryyy expensive.  On the other hand, due to the very Lego way trucks are built, a somewhat useful Dakar in spirit truck could be built on a not too crazy budget. (Maybe)

Tires like the Westlake AT557 in a 425/65-22.5 go for in the range of $600 here in Canada, probably cheaper in the US.  

The Gabriel Heavy Duty catalogue lists stroke, and damping rates for all of their shocks, so something could be found that would probably work and they are cheap.  (Usually in the $50 range.). They list some with stroke lengths over 12", but one could angle the shocks and double them up if more travel is needed.

Springs and mounting would be tougher part.  Spring pivot mounts tend to be cast brackets, so raising the unit for more travel could be a bit tough, but probably doable.  

Springs could also be a bit of a thing, as most heavy trucks are made to be operated near or at maximum weight, so it may actually be difficult to find springs that are soft enough..  Hmmmmmmm.....m

Don't forget you giant spare turbo

My local dealer is taunting me with this.  Are there any good turners for newer Mack engines? 

Truck highlights from Dakar Rally posted today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnU-6QkaLyk

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

My local dealer is taunting me with this.  Are there any good turners for newer Mack engines? 

If you're taunted by that 03Panther will make you a damn good deal on this:

I've been contemplating it for our potential RV build, but it's a bit out of our current budget(which is in the $2k range). His rig is cheap for what it is & the condition it's in though. 

Dang... The S&S will actually do freeway speeds comfortably (er, I mean not revving its guts out; I don't know that "comfort" is a thing they do) with the high speed gears (a $6k option at the specialist I just looked up). $24k for one (before regearing) with ~25k miles makes it look like a bargain compared to a full size pickup truck until you note that that 65mph cruise just into 7th gear is still 7 mpg...

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

Not that I've put too much thought into this every year but an S&S Army truck would be a good start. If I was going from scratch to actually race and had a bit of cash I'd start with a single axle Mack because USA (I know they've been Renaults most of my life humor me).  For power I'd have a Series 60 Detroit tuned to about 1100 hp,  a friend runs one pulling a quad axle dump trailer and it pulls hard fully loaded. It would be connected to an Allison auto, transfer case and axles from s&s.  Suspension would be upsized monster truck four links at both ends on big coils. I'd paint it green with a red frame like every Mack garbage truck was when I was a kid with a little too much chrome for a racer and go put on a show chasing the Russians. 
 

“Not that you’ve put much thought into it”.  Priceless 

In reply to 11GTCS :

I was looking into renting a seat but they didn't consider my 2nd place Bus Roadeo finish enough experience. Just as well, if I did it I'd want to rent the Turbo Twin recreation. 
 

In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :

Their loss Wally, their loss. 

Whenever i think about a cheap truck for racing i think more along the lines of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdaGbl-Br6M

If you're looking for not a T4 dakar style vehicle but a regular SUV. The Montero, Montero Sport, all models of land cruiser, the 1st and 2nd gen pathfinders, and more. Were all raced successfully in Dakar in the stock class. They weren't allowed to change control arms or anything. Limited to a 32" tire. Usually 235 or 215/85 -16, heavy duty. Or 7.50-16 tire. Put in a basic roll cage, add Some extra motor mounts and exhaust hangers. Go have fun for cheap. 

You could probably make a decent fake one by adding tall tires and building a body kit for something like an Isuzu cab-forward. Unfortunately, those tall heavy tires wouldn't help ride or performance.

Perhaps something like dirt every days motorhome

Or the baja 1000 condor motorhome