I don't think this is off topic, but if it is, someone move it...
A couple recent threads and posts have made a debate of the term "grassroots" and its appropriateness when describing certain content and intent. But I wonder about folks general feeling about adhering to word definitions and extrapolating (interpreting?) and applying appropriate connotations. I also wonder if this is something that the wordsmiths that write the magazine continue to struggle with and debate.
Thoughts?
I can't say it eloquently enough, but to me, grassroots is doin something on the cheap whenever necessary. Now, when building a race car, I'm not goin to use reinforced duct-tape in place of harnesses or a bucket of sand in the passenger seat in place of a proper fire supression system. But the article about the M3 in a recent issue comes quickly to mind. That's not grassroots. Holy crap, that car is worth at much as my depreciated house!
The problem is, you can't say "Grassroots is anything under $10,000" because, many of our fellow subscribers (not me though :( ) earn 6-figures a year.
I guess if you wanna know what grassroots is, pick up a 10-year old issue of GRM. I used to read EVERY word of the mag. Now I skip at least a third.
I would love to see a GLH build, or a 5.0L into a FA of FB.
Ok, I put my opinion up there, shoot it down folks....
I don't know, a lot of the board outcry about this lately comes off as sour grapes to me.
Engage flamesuit.
You're absolutely correct. One man's grassroots effort is a another man's lotto-fueled pipe dream.
I look at it like this: grassroots is doing what you can with what you've got. For me, that's putting up with and working around the quirks of sub-$2k used cars rather than signing up for a $400/month car payment, and dealing with working in my garage sans lift; for others it's putting up with working under a tarp in the dirt next to their house, or not getting caught changing their oil in the parking lot of their apartment complex.
I always thought grassroots referred to low level/relatively low cost amateur stuff.
"grassroots" to me means doing it yourself, and doing it using cheaper alternatives, but not jerry-rigging anything.
For example, the rocker stud fix on the 1932 datsun replica. Instead of paying a machine shop hundreds to do the repair, Joey fixed it himself, and spent 15¢.
Or Rad_Capz's pallet workbench. He's got a nice bench made from old pallets and reused nails. Didn't cost him a thing, and is good for the environment, too.
To me, that's what Grassroots means.
Doing more with less.
Punching above your weight class.
Bang for the buck.
Do I need more? I can't afford a super awesome car right now, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading about performance bargains. Buying a used C5 Z06 to go racing against $100K cars is grassroots to me, even if I can't afford it personally (or choose not to afford it).
While I love $2000 builds, I own one and I wouldn't really want to read about it constantly. Neither would SWMBO, who has started swiping most of my car mags each month, especially GRM. There's room for everything.
(PS - She wants you to do a S197 project car! ESP/STX/fun street driver in an 05 Mustang please. Windevil Blue if you can. Thanks!)
Grassroots to me: A good coast effective repair/upgrade that can be done on your own, or with a few friends.
Grassroots = DIY whenever possible
I will agree to me Grassroots should about DIY with what you have when it is safe to do so.
This thread seems to come up at least once a year, mostly after a new(er) more expensive >$50k car gets reviewed.
I agree with many who have posted before doing what you can with what you have, I used to think GRM = low buck, used vehicles in all things with budgets in the sub $10k realm and all work had to be done yourself, no matter what.
The more time goes on I see it on a relative scale. This was no better described in detail in Tim Suddard's most recent column (page) describing workshops and where most of us start and where we want to go/end up. Having essentially covered Tim's comments in 5 years going from working on a GRM car in my buddies apartment complex parking lot on the ground to working in an garage with epoxy coated floors, enough drop-lighting to start a fire, a decent size workbench (that I built myself (grassroots), partial climate control (heat in winter) with all sorts of tools and equipment to safely and more importantly easily work on cars (jobs that took 2 hours and made you filthy now take 30 min and you don't break a sweat) I'm really starting to appreciate the 'sliding scale' of the term Grassroots. This is purely my observation, that in the words of Einstein, it's all relative.
BoostedBrandon wrote: "grassroots" to me means doing it yourself, and doing it using cheaper alternatives, but not jerry-rigging anything.
This.
Making the most with what you got (not doing a "checkbook build") while at the same time doing things right.
Meh, while it IS a sliding scale, I tend to feel it should stay towards the lower end of that scale. There are plenty of magazines out there that can show you cool ways to spend a lot of money. There are very few that tell you how to get by with less, and that celebrate the ingenuity required.
If I had to pick an absolutely arbitrary number, I would say that in my strictly personal opinion, a project has to fall below $25,000 including purchase of the car to be considered "grassroots". Even there, that's well over twice what I would consider investing in a car project unless the lottery people come to my house. Cool as it was, the only thing "grassroots" about the M3 track car (can hardly call it a rat) was that they started with somebody's previous shunt.
I also agree that no matter the dollar cost of the project, there needs to be a strong emphasis on DIY work that humans can accomplish in a reasonably-equipped garage with a couple buddies of similar skill.
There have been plenty of similar articles that stray away from what I consider to be "grassroots". However, I freely admit that it's not my magazine to edit or publish. I'm a 10-year-plan subscriber, and when that one expires, I don't expect to hesitate before reupping for another 10 years.
Javelin wrote: Doing more with less. Punching above your weight class. Bang for the buck.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
An 8 year old Porsche 911 Turbo for less than a loaded camry sounds pretty grassroots to me!
DrBoost wrote: I can't say it eloquently enough, but to me, grassroots is doin something on the cheap whenever necessary. Now, when building a race car, I'm not goin to use reinforced duct-tape in place of harnesses or a bucket of sand in the passenger seat in place of a proper fire supression system. But the article about the M3 in a recent issue comes quickly to mind. That's not grassroots. Holy crap, that car is worth at much as my depreciated house! The problem is, you can't say "Grassroots is anything under $10,000" because, many of our fellow subscribers (not me though :( ) earn 6-figures a year. I guess if you wanna know what grassroots is, pick up a 10-year old issue of GRM. I used to read EVERY word of the mag. Now I skip at least a third. I would love to see a GLH build, or a 5.0L into a FA of FB. Ok, I put my opinion up there, shoot it down folks....
I would tend to agree with you. I think Grassroots is doing the most with what you have. If that is $5,000 or $500,000 to blow isn't really my business. Just get out and have fun. Generally speaking I am more interested in the $20,000 and below class but that is just what is more realistic to me.
I happen to co-own a 5.0 FB Lemons/Chumpcar and am starting on building a LS1 FB. The LS1 will also be a budget build as much as one of those can be. Plan is using a 2nd gen subframe with T2 brakes and putting 5 lug axles in the stock rear. With the sale of the rebuilt 13B, trans and Megasquirt I am only $350 in the LS1/T56 combo and it came with everything from the donor car.
During my time at the magazine I batted for an article or short series about doing a 5.0 1st gen RX-7 on a cheap challenge sized budget. I still think readers would enjoy it but it advertisers would have about zero interest. My wrenching, writing, documentation and photography skills at the time (and arguably now) were questionable and the builds need to be kept on schedule so that the articles come out on time.
Here's my take as this is often brought up here:
When Tim and Margie started this magazine over 26 years ago it was a low-budget autocrosser aimed publication. Most of the readers were autocrossers in their 20s, driving GTIs, RX-7s, Civics, and other lower-priced cars.
Fast forward 26 years and now those original readers are in their 50s and 60s. A lot of these guys are now more affluent, and are racing Corvettes, BMWs, Porsches, and other more expensive cars.
Should we ignore the wants/ needs of our most loyal readers now because they have a bit more $$ to spend? Of course not. Are we going to ignore the kid without any $$ doing an engine swap in his garage? Of course not.
The way I look at it, "Grassroots" is more of an attitude than a strict monetary demarkation line. If you have a car (any car) and you enjoy working on it, taking it to the track, and figuring out how to make yourself and the car better, that is Grassroots. Even if you don't have the time to do all of your own work, you can still be "Grassroots", as long as you have an understanding an appreciation for what has been done.
I run into this all the time with advertisers who are under the misconception that GRM readers are "cheap", or "low-buck". This just isn't the case. Our readers spend a ton of money on mods, and racing in general.
Being smart with your $$$ and choice of mods is Grassroots to me, not the amount spent.
Here's more fodder... definition of "grassroots" from Merriam-Webster:
as noun: 1: the very foundation or source 2: the basic level of society or of an organization especially as viewed in relation to higher or more centralized positions of power
as adjective: 1 : basic, fundamental 2 : being, originating, or operating in or at the grass roots 3 : not adapted from or added to an existing facility or operation : totally new
And since what most here are discussing is what "grassroots" means to them in terms of connotation, here's the definition of "connotation":
noun 1: an idea or feeling that a word invokes person in addition to its literal or primary meaning : the word “discipline” has unhappy connotations of punishment and repression. 2: the implication of such ideas or feelings : the work functions both by analogy and by connotation. 3: the abstract meaning or intension of a term, which forms a principle determining which objects or concepts it applies to. Often contrasted with denotation .
grass·roots [gras-roots, -roots, grahs-] noun ( used with a singular or plural verb ) Also, grass roots .
adjective Also, grass-roots .
mo·tor·sports [moh-ter-spawrts, -spohrts] plural noun
I'll combine #4 from Grassroots and #1 from motorsports to form:
Grassroots Motorsports:
Geez don't any of you berkeleyers have access to google?
Grassroots....I equate it to "Begins at home".
When added to "motorsports" it gets a bit specific. I may never race at Indy or Talladega, but I sure might help organize an autocross/car show/swap meet/mud bog with my friends.
Rather than write a check, grassroots individuals spend time, study, blood and sweat to achieve the same if not better results.
I could go on, but I have some tinkering to do.
Bruce
BTW, another dictionary did couch "grassroots" in terms of economic level as well:
as noun ( used with a singular or plural verb ) 1. the common or ordinary people, especially as contrasted with the leadership or elite of a political party, social organization, etc.; the rank and file. 2. the agricultural and rural areas of a country. 3. the people inhabiting these areas, especially as a political, social, or economic group. 4. the origin or basis of something; the basic or primary concept, rule, part, or the like.
as adjective 5. of, pertaining to, or involving the common people, especially as contrasted with or separable from an elite: a grassroots movement for nuclear disarmament.
The definition of Grassroots is different for people reading the magazine, participating in this forum, and participating in the Challenge.
I'm one of the cheepa$$e$ that frequents this forum and the Challenge.
The magazine loyals are a bit more affluent.
Since they pay most of the bills that support the hobby I love, I am deeply appreciative of their contribution, and do not want to exclude them in any way.
I also appreciate the way in which the GRM staff walks the (sometimes blurry) line to try to appease us both.
My simple solution is that there are some pages of the magazine that I generally don't read.
Win! 
From a 2k car that can beat up on most sports cars to 30KBMWs that can beat up on 50K BMWs, I like them all, David vs Goliath is the key, I think, using your own hands and ingenuity. Heck, I have not spent as much on some of my cars as they spend on exhaust for cars like the MS3 or the 335, but it's fine.
Just because I can't do it doesn't mean it isn't intersting and fun to read about. Heck, you guys have all read Penthouse, right?
tuna55 wrote: Just because I can't do it doesn't mean it isn't intersting and fun to read about. Heck, you guys have all read Penthouse, right?
Is read the right word there? 
I will just add to this by saying I brought this up (5-7 years back?). I had threats of having my legs broken, My tool box's stolen and I lost a bet with Tim regarding a 10 year script. (the best bet I ever lost by the way)
So please carry on 
just my opinion ... but I don't think you can put a $ amount on whether it's grassroots or not.... $2k challenge cars = grassroots... especially if you do the work yourself... but Jay Leno is worth millions... to the best of my knowledge he still gets his hands dirty working on some of his cars ... eventhough he pays big bucks to have them professionally taken care of... to me he's still grassroots ... he buys them, rebuilds them, drives them, works on them.. just at a different level than most of us .... so no $$$ level .... like I said .. just my opinion
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