"grassroots", definition and connotation

Javelin wrote: Doing more with less. Punching above your weight class. Bang for the buck.

i would only add; Doing the work yourself.

I don't mind if not ALL the articles are about crap can racing. just so long as it's mostly about that.

My definition of grassroots centers on the belief that the most expensive way is never the only way, and rarely even the best way, to increase the performance of your vehicle. For some guys that's junkyard motor swaps, for others it's hand-laying your own carbon wing instead of paying $5k for one. Grassroots is a reliance on your own engineering knowledge and mechanical prowess before anyone else's, often (but not always) driven by frugality. And remember, frugal doesn't always equal broke.

belteshazzar wrote:

Javelin wrote: Doing more with less. Punching above your weight class. Bang for the buck.

i would only add; Doing the work yourself. I don't mind if not ALL the articles are about crap can racing. just so long as it's mostly about that.

How about doing most of the work yourself. I may be able to cobble a suspension on or set a home alignment, but I'll got to the tire shop for the tire install and balance. I change all the fluids but I'll let the experts setup the rear diff gearset. I'll do all the bodywork on the Javelin, but I'll pay a pro to lay the actual paint. Stuff like that.

ultraclyde wrote: Grassroots is a reliance on your own engineering knowledge and mechanical prowess before anyone else's, often (but not always) driven by frugality. And remember, frugal doesn't always equal broke.

This is very good and aligns with my thoughts on the subject as well. It's just better written than anything I could have come up with.

I wrote a column about this very subject a while ago, but the gist was that it's like pornography: You know it when you see it.

I like the line about punching above your weight class. Does that mean than an E46 M3 isn't grassroots? Not when it's a former wreck that's now running down a Porsche GT3.

Here's a story I have told before, but it made a big impact on me. Many, many years ago, when GRM still had black-and-white pages, I ran a track event at Roebling Road in my Rabbit GTI. While there I talked to an older gentleman who trailered in his then-new Ferrari. Even though we had vastly different budgets, the attitude was the same: We were there to have fun with the coolest toy that fit our budget. (And no, that doesn't mean we're doing a Ferrari project.)

grassroots = attitude

whether racer, builder, collector, or some combination of the three

David S. Wallens wrote: the gist.......... it's like pornography: You know it when you see it.

About doing stuff yourself... I would agree that is a very grassroots sorta thing to do, but I'm not sure I want to do everything myself... there's something to be said for having someone else do some things... like welding a roll cage.

BTW...

dean1484 wrote: I will just add to this by saying I brought this up (5-7 years back?). I had threats of having my legs broken, My tool box's stolen and I lost a bet with Tim regarding a 10 year script. (the best bet I ever lost by the way) So please carry on

Sounds like I should try to kill this thread ASAP, huh?

No just be prepared to pony up for a 10 year script.

And if you happen have nice tools please PM your address and times when you are not going to be home.

BoostedBrandon wrote: "grassroots" to me means doing it yourself, and doing it using cheaper alternatives, but not jerry-rigging anything. For example, the rocker stud fix on the 1932 datsun replica. Instead of paying a machine shop hundreds to do the repair, Joey fixed it himself,

I would love to take credit for that, but it was ditchdigger who did it...we were discussing it in my build thread

I just wanted to add that this topic has already been thrashed to death in previous threads....nobody asked my opinion, but here it is anyway. Print whatever is necessry to sell magazines. If that means new car reviews of lambos, so be it. (I will just read less of the magazine.)

just keep the challenge and the forum.....that is why I am a subscriber.

JoeyM wrote: just keep the challenge and the forum.....that is why I am a subscriber.

/thread

I try to keep in mind that Grass Roots are at the bottom of the grass, but their purpose is to anchor a much larger blade soaring above. So while I am with the original poster in that I skip half the magazine compared to years ago (it's twice the size, so it all works out) I realize the importance of the more expensive builds. They are where we all want to be someday, and often profile people who got there in the same way: a grassroots effort.

They can always pick up the MR2 project car since it never went far. Hint Hint. Mk1.5? Anyone? Beuler?

Duke wrote: There have been plenty of similar articles that stray away from what I consider to be "grassroots". However, I freely admit that it's not my magazine to edit or publish. I'm a 10-year-plan subscriber, and when that one expires, I don't expect to hesitate before reupping for another 10 years.

+1 I think in the previous discussion I mentioned I read about 50% of the magazine these days. That wasn't a complaint, Im happy that there is a mag out there where at least 50% of the content appeals to me. I will continue to subscribe because....

JoeyM wrote: just keep the challenge and the forum.....that is why I am a subscriber.

exactly! I enjoy the magazine when I actually have time to read it but I subscribe because I know it helps keep this forum alive and this forum is the best part of GRM to me.

I'm sure alot of folks out there would look at my current shop and say I'm not grassroots. Heck, the 20 year old me that built his first autocross sprite in a garage so small I had to push the car outside to work on it would like to kick current me's butt every time I complain my 4 car garage is too small or the lift isn't working right today.

And for that matter I've lost most of my interest in organized motorsports as well. I much prefer the build to the drive and only use competition as a way to test out builds and look for room for improvement.

So I may be neither grassroots nor motorsports by the definitions but "mad scientist car builder" magazine doesn't exist yet so this is as close as I can get :)

I think most of the stuff GRM is indeed Grassroots even the high end builds are fairly grassroots. I had a hard time thinking that about the E46 M3 in the last magazine. It seemed to be bolt these 20K of parts on and go fast which does seem to be very Grassroots to me.

93EXCivic wrote: I think most of the stuff GRM is indeed Grassroots even the high end builds are fairly grassroots. I had a hard time thinking that about the E46 M3 in the last magazine. It seemed to be bolt these 20K of parts on and go fast which does seem to be very Grassroots to me.

$27k in parts, including a $3500 carbon fiber intake air box. That was on top of fixing the wrecked car they started with. Is it grassroots... probably as grassroots as it can be for what it is.

i first came here to find out what kind of fertilizer to use..

GrantMLS wrote: i first came here to find out what kind of fertilizer to use..

E36 M3, of course.

Or more accurately, bull E36 M3.

I'm kinda late to this party (that's what I get for being on the back end of the site all day) but I enjoy these conversations when they pop up every few months.

ReverendDexter nailed the answer in my mind. Doing what you can with what you've got.

Whether you've got a $500 Craigslist refugee, a $10k family car, a $30k performance car, or a $100k supercar, and whether it's box stock, a complete ground-up build or somewhere in between, you ought to be out there driving the wheels off it when you can. Can't afford Road Racing? Try HPDE. Can't afford HPDE? Try Autocross. Can't afford Autocross? Donate plasma.

Tom Heath wrote: Donate plasma.

that's how I financed my addiction ... until my heart surgery anyway

In reply to wbjones:

That's how I financed my wedding.

IMHO Grassroots in relation to motorsports means:

Building the car yourself with your own money.

I picked up my first Grassroots Magazine when I saw the cover page "$1500 Challenge".

Do what you can afford, but do SOMETHING - that is my Grassroots definition. So many auto/truck enthusiasts get scared off over "not being able to buy or spend X amount of dollars".

Hogwash. Misconception by others, and bad influences by non gearheads. Race your junk, race your $100k car, just race it well, drive it, have fun.

And a high five for the coverage in the magazine recently for young drivers. They need the Grassroots influence.

I think the answers the staff gave hits the nail on the head. At least for me. Especially Joe Gearin's comment. I used to fixed my own cars because I had to, couldn't afford to pay someone and I didn't have toys. Now the kids are grown and I'm only paying one college tuition now. I have a good job that pays well and I get what I call my guaranteed house payment (military retirement check) and I fit in the over 50 bracket. I have toys now. The old ones I enjoy doing all the work on. The newer ones I do what I can but often pay someone to work on them. Especially when I don't have the equipment or warranty kicks in. I can afford better than I have but I like what I have and don't want anything else. Also have a wife that doesn't understand this stuff so I still end up saving up for things for my toys. GRM fits in well in the picture for me.

Grassroots to me is amatuer motorsports. Doing things yourself and doing things right. Making the most of what you have and that includes talent. If you pay someone to do what you can't that still equates to grassroots because you get it done right (and safe). A well done amatuer Honda is more interesting to me than someone that wrote checks for a modded big buck car. I go to car shows and seek out the survivors in the back, those get my vote and are my favorites.

It's all about doing the best you can with what you have and having a good time while you're at it. It's all the above and what will be said after me. It's different for each of us. We all have our own tastes and opinions but the best thing about here is respect for others opinion as long as they (we) enjoy this madness. That's GRM to me.

JThw8 wrote: And for that matter I've lost most of my interest in organized motorsports as well. I much prefer the build to the drive and only use competition as a way to test out builds and look for room for improvement.

It is nice to know that I'm not alone in this....I have not done much autocross this year....I'm more interested in building the datsun these days.

JThw8 wrote: So I may be neither grassroots nor motorsports by the definitions but "mad scientist car builder" magazine doesn't exist yet so this is as close as I can get :)

I'm in the same boat....I'll be here until Tim start's publishing Junkyard Fabricators