GRM Challenge game changer

Has it ever been suggested that a rallycross segment be included as part of the GRM Challenge? I've been watching some of the threads on GRM challenge projects and how sharp many of the cars are being honed for the competition. It's impressive, inspiring, and generally awesome. But being in the process of becoming more and more of a rallycross enthusiast, I can't help wondering if/how those builds would change if rallycross was on the list.

Anyone else?

I think a venue may be an issue

Not at the same site maybe, but I think finding a location is probably pretty manageable... Gainesville Raceway appears to have plenty of grassy area that is used for parking for large events. Or as an alternative example: http://www.hardrockmx.com/track.htm

It's been suggested dozens of times. The logistics are the killer.

As much as I wish it could happen, I simply don't see it in the cards.

BUMMER! I'm betting having adequate time to fit it into the schedule is one of the biggest deal killers, right?

this seems to come up every year right after the challenge when people begin hankering for next year's challenge...

Oh good, I'm early. j/k

I know I'd love to see it added, or substituted one year for the auto-x maybe. Then again, maybe just wait until the top 10 finishers are all V8 converted roadsters.

Lots of different things have been suggested, including rallycross, fuel economy, claiming rule, road course (which has been done in the past), alternate locations (also tried before), etc. In the end, things keep coming back to the autocross, drag race, and judging with fairly simple rules. I tried to influence change with the alternate location and got bit in the ass, now I'm just trying to go with the flow.

Bryce

In reply to Tom Heath: Tom,What about the Europian Rally School in Keystone? I've tested a few cars there and think they have a Rally cross track.

speedbiu wrote: In reply to Tom Heath: Tom,What about the Europian Rally School in Keystone? I've tested a few cars there and think they have a Rally cross track.

They may have a rally-cross track, but do they have a sanctioned 1/4 mile dragstrip, an area large enough for an autocross, a big enough staff to help run the event, and hotels in the area that can accommodate 300 or so folks?

While we welcome all comments on how to improve the Challenge, implementing changes takes a ton of planning, and foresight. It is kind of in the "If it ain't broke" sort of realm at this point.

Now if you have ideas on getting more national TV and media attention for the Challenge........ lay it on us!

Yeah, it's not so much a matter of finding a place to have a rallycross, it's being able to handle the whole event from one location. With hotels.

Also, there's the matter of staffing the event. 12 staff members only stretch so far, so we enlist volunteers from the always awesome Martin Sports Car Club to help with the autocross and hire staff from Gainesville Raceway for the day.

It's easy to overlook all the tasks that need to be done to make an event like this happen. Adding 25% more event at a completely different location would mean a pretty huge addition in manpower for a small company.

My bad,I thought this was for another event all together.I would not change the Challenge format at all.I've only attended it three times but I have to give you guys at GRM hats off for the size of event you put on with the amount of people you have to staff it with.

Joe Gearin wrote: It is kind of in the "If it ain't broke" sort of realm at this point.

Whoa! That just seems kinda anti-GRM, doesn't it? "if it ain't broke" is like a gauntlet being thrown down to just go f'in' with it.

Seriously though, you guys have got this thing working like a champ, it inspires folks to do awesome, inventive, and weird stuff, and it generates plenty of editorial content. As for more national TV interest, if the Speed Channel, Versus, Fuel TV, or HD Theater aren't game on it, that's a damn shame. I've seen plenty of plain old crap on those channels that surely aren't nearly half as entertaining. You might talk to some of the bigger players over on pro-touring.com... they seem to be connected and get media coverage for their stuff, and I think their audience would be interested and entertained by the Challenge.

Oh well, not meaning to stir the pot at all, just seeing if others shared interest in the idea. The answer seems to be yes, but the Challenge ain't where it's gonna happen.

Joe Gearin wrote: Now if you have ideas on getting more national TV and media attention for the Challenge........ lay it on us!

Try to get the guys from Top Gear USA or The Car Show to serve as celebrity judges. Even if they declined, having made the offer would remind them that the challenge exists.

Nashco wrote: I tried to influence change with the alternate location and got bit in the ass, now I'm just trying to go with the flow. Bryce

I feel your pain.

JoeyM wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: Now if you have ideas on getting more national TV and media attention for the Challenge........ lay it on us!

Try to get the guys from Top Gear USA or The Car Show to serve as celebrity judges. Even if they declined, having made the offer would remind them that the challenge exists.

This is a good idea and might cause me to actually watch an entire episode of this show!

plance1 wrote:

Nashco wrote: I tried to influence change with the alternate location and got bit in the ass, now I'm just trying to go with the flow. Bryce

I feel your pain.

Ugh, yeah, I think a lot of us came out of that with scars on our butts. Who knew it was that hard to get people to come out for an event on the West Coast? I thought you guys liked cars out there!

Margie

The build on a car that's good at rallycross is really different from one that's good at autocross. I feel like adding it to the challenge wouldn't be a good addition. Making it a separate event would be awesome.

dculberson wrote: The build on a car that's good at rallycross is really different from one that's good at autocross. I feel like adding it to the challenge wouldn't be a good addition. Making it a separate event would be awesome.

I do agree that a car good at rallycross will not be the best at autocross, or vice versa. But I like cars that try to be "swiss army knives". Based on first hand experience, it is totally possible to build a car that is very capable of doing both. The damper and spring rates needed for a rallycross/rally car can (and often do) serve quite well for autocross (and street driving). Combined with adjustable sway bars, adjustable ride height (coilovers or whatever), and adjustable caster/camber/toe, a car can be tuned to be competitive at either while being able to do both. Besides, how much more GRM does it get than that?

Consider the popularity of Rallycross.

Compre that to the popularity of autocross.

that would be a decent estimate of the decrease of participants to a challenge.

Is your assumption that the majority of Challenge competitors are only (or primarily) competitors because of the autocross? Based on the kinda stuff I've seen in the magazine and from talking to some competitors, they do it because of the challenge, not because it's necessarily an autocross thing.

Rallycross is less popular than autocross--and the inclusion of it would just limit the number of entrants because people wouldn't want to beat the snot out of their cars offroad.

Frankly, we don't need more entrants to this event--from an editorial standpoint, if we had 8 entries, we'd be set for the 8 editorial features we typically get out of the event. The trick is that they need to be 8 wicked cool entries.

From a promotion/marketing standpoint, however, having 50+ cars is cool and adds to the event from nearly every angle.

darkbuddha wrote: Is your assumption that the majority of Challenge competitors are only (or primarily) competitors because of the autocross? Based on the kinda stuff I've seen in the magazine and from talking to some competitors, they do it because of the challenge, not because it's necessarily an autocross thing.

Yes.

Or at least given the choice, making a car that can do both autocross and drag race is more palatable than rallycross and drag race.

Not that I've been to a challenge since 2004, but I would not do a rallycross car. And to ADD rallycross- that takes a lot of compromise to be able to set a car up to do both.

None the less, that does not stop you from making a $2000 rallycross car that is so cool that GRM might write a feature about it.

darkbuddha wrote: I like cars that try to be "swiss army knives".

The problem is that swiss army knives aren't very good at any of the jobs they do. The challenge has cars breaking into 10 second quarter miles and some really amazing autocross times. It would seem like a step backwards to slow things down.

It has been suggested before (by me), but it would be a huge change to an event that is so well run right now.

I think by definition many rally-cross cars start life as cheap beaters. I'd love to get some Rally-X love up here.