yeah
yeah
Hi Warren:
A couple of questions:
I was recently rear ended in my early miata. The bumper of the SUV that hit me cleared my bumper and hit right above it. If something similar happens in an exocet, wouldn't the gas tank take a direct hit? In addition to this, i am looking at the rear design and i see a single transversal bar. Is that enough to resist a 4,000 lb SUV from pushing it towards me?
I am interested in having a bit of storage space in the boot. Does the boot flip up or otherwise do that the space on top of the tank can be used? Any space there at all?
I think you already answered this question on the miata forum, but will expand a bit here. I think i would like a windshield with a frame. Something a bit more structural than just a piece of lexan without a frame. Is that possible? (As you can see, my recent experience with the SV running straight into the back of my car while stopped at a red light made me sort of safety-conscious :)
On the flip side (the accident), the exo looks better and better. I am wondering how my turbo'ed, intercooled, megasquirted lump would do in the exo. Oh, also with the FM 1.5 suspension package.
Thanks.
In reply to Florin:
Hey Florin, Happy New Year's Eve Eve.
First off, the rear deck (the square empty section) in the renders here is NOT REPRESENTATIVE of the production chassis. We have a little bit of fuel tank and subframe wrangling to figure out on our prototype before committing to a design. Those tubes will be gusseted and much more resistant to parallelogramming, especially in the front.
The gas tank is nestled low and forward in the back deck, and the sloped shape of the tank is nearly parallel to the rear downtubes. We'll be sure to take lots of side-profile pictures when we get the prototype build done. I am working on integrating mounts for a standard 10gal fuel cell into the production design so you have the option of running something narrower right behind the front roll hoop at the extra expense of a purchased tank and fuel pump. In a rear-ender, the rear downtubes, rear deck, subframe, and those mid-downtubes all work together to keep the passenger compartment a reasonably safe place to be. A 4000lb SUV impact is not going to be stopped by a single tube in bending, and it's a difficult task for even the most safe cars. Just for comparison, here is the rear frame of a Factory Five Roadster, which is pretty well-regarded when it comes to safety:
As far as storage space, this new design will allow the trunk to swing clear the downtubes. There is a little bit of space, but you would have to strap anything down. You could put a hinge on the back and latches/pins on the front to make that work, but that's something you'd have to figure out on your kit (our laundry list is pretty huge right now). We personally don't see the need on our cars, as there is tons of room behind the seats (I would daresay more than an NA's trunk).
A framed Lexan windshield is something I'd like to explore, but actually making it functional, reasonably attractive, easy to manufacture, simple to install, quiet, and inexpensive is a difficult proposition. To be straight with you, we are getting many many orders for the car as-is and will probably only offer a laser-cut short Lexan windshield for the time being. There is a good 3" of mounting flange on the hood to secure it in position, and the single curvature makes it surprisingly strong. It would have no problem deflecting birds or similar things. Again, I always wear a helmet with these things. I treat them as four-wheeled motorcycles.
In reply to Warren v:
Thanks, Warren. So when will you know all details?
Happy New Year! Florin
Warren - I have a quick question for you, having just read the entire thread and watched the AMP video you posted. In this thread, there is a $10k price point thrown around a few times as the cost for a running/driving version. But, in the video, when asked by the driver, the price point someone replied with was $15k. The car in the video is referred to several times as a '91 1.6L Miata set up, with stock pads etc.
So, what is the expected cost for a running/driving version? I realize much of that is dependent on the cost of the donor/parts, but I'm interested in your current thinking regarding price point. Either way, it looks like a fun car to drive!
dyintorace wrote: Warren - I have a quick question for you, having just read the entire thread and watched the AMP video you posted. In this thread, there is a $10k price point thrown around a few times as the cost for a running/driving version. But, in the video, when asked by the driver, the price point someone replied with was $15k. The car in the video is referred to several times as a '91 1.6L Miata set up, with stock pads etc. So, what is the expected cost for a running/driving version? I realize much of that is dependent on the cost of the donor/parts, but I'm interested in your current thinking regarding price point. Either way, it looks like a fun car to drive!
That specific car was Kevin's LHD US prototype (before Exomotive was started). It was shipped over from the UK alone, required a bit of custom fab, and he splurged on a bunch of shiny stuff like aftermarket seat sliders, a full engine rebuild, all new poly bushings, a few new uprights and ball joints, RB header, exhaust, calipers, coilovers, etc. He took apart everything in the subframes and had the parts individually powdercoated. This was his first real automotive project and needed to get set up with tools, registration, etc. That $15k is very inclusive of that first build.
We did a full 1.8 build with a powdercoated chassis and re-upholstered NA seats for $7700. That includes includes lighting, registration, and a donor without subtracting anything for sold parts. $10k is a generous number for a 1.8 Torsen build with subframe powdercoating and aftermarket seats.
When it comes down to it, it's how much you want to spend. The kit (at least the Exocet) is quite comprehensive with fasteners, p-clips, mounts, etc. A nice thing is how strong the parts market is for NAs. With a little effort, you can sell your unused Miata bits for much more than the donor.
Florin
The next few months look like they're going to be dedicated to scaling up production rather than product development. I can't promise anything about a windshield, especially since most of our customers don't want any sort of windshield at all (to my knowledge we only have three US customers with windshields due to their state requirements). In the meantime, I can tell you that a short laser-cut impact-resistant polycarb windshield will be available sometime this month.
As an alternative, Simpson makes an excellent windshield:
In reply to Warren v:
Hi Warren
I understand about the windshield. I was wondering about the rest of the details that you mentioned are still in development, as well as the price.
Thanks
In reply to Florin:
Oh, just imagine some gussets in the rear. You'll never see them with the rear cover installed anyways.
It's not my place to give definite numbers, but we have a pretty good idea on our manufacturing costs now. While the quality is going up dramatically (all DOM vs ERW, dimensional accuracy, stiffness, strength, safety, DOMEX 700MC sheet steel, precut and prebent aluminum panels), we are looking good on being able to hit very close to the same $6k for the base kit. Local manufacturing makes everything much better. Boats are expensive and don't make the car faster. 
I am trying to keep the "Sport" upgrade (harness bar, diagonal, mid-downtubes) inexpensive; I would prefer everyone have the increased safety of a diagonal and harness. Assembly, welding, and shipping is quite a bit easier without those added tubes, that's going to be the added cost.
Don't put too much effort into a polycarbonate windshield - much better to work out a glass version. Polycarbonate isn't approved as a windshield material in a lot of states, safety glass is required. I'm thinking particularly of Colorado registration requirements. That's assuming you register the Exocet as a kit car, not just as a Miata with a body kit.
The good thing is that a custom flat glass windshield is easy to source. I think the ones for my Locost cost me about $30 for the glass, including the required etching.
My 22 yo miata is emission exempt in MD, which is a good thing, since I am running megasquirt. if i registered the exocet as a kit car, wouldn't i have to have it emission checked every 2 years, just like any car that is newer than 20 years? i guess i could stick in the stock injectors, O2 sensor and ecu and not go into boost till the inspection station and back, if that would even work.
So, how are people dealing with this in a kit car (that is not emission friendly, for the simple reason they run megasquirt or any other non stock ecu) in a state that requires emission testing?
Depends on the state. Some - most, actually - have specific rules that allow kit cars to bypass emissions checks. There are a couple (Mass comes to mind) that require newly registered/built kit cars to be tested as new cars. Obviously this is not plausible for most kits.
The best source for information on this is your state DMV, as they're the ones who will actually be registering the car. A distant second choice would be to check with SEMA. Third choice would be to talk to someone who has actually been through the process in your state. Forums and car clubs seem to thrive on rumor more than fact, and you may be surprised at how quickly you get an answer by calling the state. Don't skip on a little bit of effort (picking up the phone seems to be considered "effort" these days) and get a nasty surprise later.
Warren v wrote:dyintorace wrote: Warren - I have a quick question for you, having just read the entire thread and watched the AMP video you posted. In this thread, there is a $10k price point thrown around a few times as the cost for a running/driving version. But, in the video, when asked by the driver, the price point someone replied with was $15k. The car in the video is referred to several times as a '91 1.6L Miata set up, with stock pads etc. So, what is the expected cost for a running/driving version? I realize much of that is dependent on the cost of the donor/parts, but I'm interested in your current thinking regarding price point. Either way, it looks like a fun car to drive!That specific car was Kevin's LHD US prototype (before Exomotive was started). It was shipped over from the UK alone, required a bit of custom fab, and he splurged on a bunch of shiny stuff like aftermarket seat sliders, a full engine rebuild, all new poly bushings, a few new uprights and ball joints, RB header, exhaust, calipers, coilovers, etc. He took apart everything in the subframes and had the parts individually powdercoated. This was his first real automotive project and needed to get set up with tools, registration, etc. That $15k is very inclusive of that first build. We did a full 1.8 build with a powdercoated chassis and re-upholstered NA seats for $7700. That includes includes lighting, registration, and a donor without subtracting anything for sold parts. $10k is a generous number for a 1.8 Torsen build with subframe powdercoating and aftermarket seats. When it comes down to it, it's how much you want to spend. The kit (at least the Exocet) is quite comprehensive with fasteners, p-clips, mounts, etc. A nice thing is how strong the parts market is for NAs. With a little effort, you can sell your unused Miata bits for much more than the donor.
Thanks for the insight Warren. Knowing you built a 1.8 version for $7700 without counting any recoup is awesome news! We've done well in the past with parting out early Miatas, so the final project cost could go down from your number nicely.
Sorry...one more quick question. Do you have a list of the parts required from the donor Miata? That would give me an idea of what parts would be left over after a build. Thanks!
You essentially lift the body off and re-use the subframes/suspension/powertrain etc
So I would think most of the interior minus the dash/gauges, seats unless you use them, all of the body panels/chassis you could sell.
dyintorace wrote: Sorry...one more quick question. Do you have a list of the parts required from the donor Miata? That would give me an idea of what parts would be left over after a build. Thanks!
This is off the top of my head and kind of rough. Parts used in the Exocet:
(stolen from Flyin' Miata, we've got to get a better picture of our backbones)
Complete Steering Assembly (we recommend removing the power steering system)
Fuel Tank Assembly & Filter
Complete wiring harness (don't cut it or mess with it unless you're already driving the Exocet)
All electronics (not true, but keep them until after the build)
Dash Gauge Assembly
Pedalbox and all master cylinder / booster doohickeys
Handbrake cables and assembly
Seats and sliders (optional)
Seatbelt assembly (only if building Base Exocet)
Brake line hoses, prop valve, and fittings
ABS goodies if you want them
That should give you a good idea of what's needed. I am working on a secret Miata-headlamp-actuator-powered double DRS system, so if you want wings that flop around, hang onto those. No details on that for a few weeks, I'm currently swamped with manufacturing stuff and playing with lasers.
In reply to Warren v:
Awesome. Thanks for the details.
Hey guys, I had an idea on how to use the Miata's headlamp actuators to give the Exocet some active aero. Here's an explanation on how they work. They're rock solid actuators that could be used for a lot of nefarious purposes, and I'm sure this could give some of you ideas on ways to use them.
Very cool!
Is anyone competitively campaigning one of these in autocross? Where would they fall? I don't have the rulebook out in front of me, so I'm guessing DMod with the other 7s? I've been hooked on the idea of building one of these for a while. Competition isn't critical, but it would be nice for there to be some potential there. Seriously considering selling the S2000, picking up a buddies STR prepped NA and turning it into an exocet. Perfect donor car as the body isn't great anyway.
Warren, how do I get a job working for Exocet? Mechanical Engineer/CAD guy here. :)
I don't think Dmod would work as its not production car based in appearance. Could be wrong.
If I'm right, AM, or BM and it wouldn't have a prayer.
Is that Emod "jeep" really production based in appearance?
I believe that kit cars can be added to D or E mod if the board approves. Something like that. I believe the FFR Subaru is expected to go there.
Warren v wrote: I am working on a secret Miata-headlamp-actuator-powered double DRS system, so if you want wings that flop around, hang onto those. No details on that for a few weeks, I'm currently swamped with manufacturing stuff and playing with lasers.
Oh hell yes!
Where's sporqster, he'll like this too!
ProDarwin wrote: Warren, how do I get a job working for Exocet? Mechanical Engineer/CAD guy here. :)
The selection process is a quantitative comparison among hoonability, technical skills, a test where you build a 5-axis waterjet from a couple of scrap hot water heaters, and the ability to cram as many Archer references in a technical drawing as possible. Unfortunately for all the engineers asking us for jobs, 98% of the engineering for the Exocet is done at this point. I'm not even full time with Exomotive, I mostly engineered my way out of a job (oops). Most of the work now is logistics, welding, composites, and boring management stuff. I plan to take care of the occasional upgrades, trailer hitches, DRS systems, and optional features myself until our next Big Project.
BTW, the company is Exomotive, the car is the Exocet. Everyone does that, no worries.
On a side note, I'm scared to post on these boards lest we get more orders (don't tell the sales guy that). We're still ramping up production to full speed. With all the excitement and orders of the new chassis we're at the point where we need to move into a dedicated facility. We haven't even advertised the new chassis or put it on our website, but we pre-sold way more 2013 kits than all of the sales of the UK-versions we imported since late 2010. There will be plenty of examples to see all over the country as we fulfill the orders.
About autocross, I'll let you know when we figure all that out. None of the driving owners really autocross their cars, but in the next few months there will be at least 5 getting flogged at all sorts of events. Mine (once we get to it) will be FM-II powered and covered with all sorts of cheaty goodies, so I'm just going to accept that it's a fun toy designed to make me look terrible in the highest classes (I have no real autocross experience). It would be nice to have a standard to point at. The 1.8 Torsen Exocets are the most popular, that will probably be it with open coilovers. We're close to getting a spec shock in street and road course flavors, we just want to do a smidge more testing before locking it down.
For road racing, we're working on something like the Mx150R series in the UK. We have a few full-cage versions going out to instructors, head course marshalls, and Spec Miata guys, a telemetry company, and the good folks at Flyin' Miata for evaluation, feedback, and determining the direction for a Spec Series. We envision it as a step up from Spec Miata; race weight would probably be standardized (and ballasted) at around 1700 lbs with driver.
May be you can help me to understand why Stuart Mills (U.K.) web-site as well as your site (Exomotive.com) do not state the weight distribution numbers of the Exocet? If they are as good as you say they are one would assume this would be a huge selling point in a light, nimble design such as this. In reply to Warren v:
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