GRM, teach me how to negotiate at a dealer. (Abarth content)

I've put the BMW up for sale and had substantial interest, including from a few close friends who won't jerk me around. As such, I've begun the hunt for a replacement. I was initially planning on going the cheap beater route and saving up for a down payment on a new Mazda 3, but then I found this.

It is EXACTLY how I would order one. Abarth, red, zero options except the Beats system. The mileage is low enough to give me plenty of warranty coverage. I have great credit, so financing will be a cinch. Two jobs, payments won't be an issue, and would be less than what the BMW was consuming in parts every month anyway. There's just one little thing...

I have never bought a car from a stealership in my entire life.

How do I play this game? How much should I realistically try to haggle on the price? They're close (about an hour drive) but not on the way home from work or anything. Is trying to get out the door for $15,500 unrealistic, or am I selling myself short? I really have no idea where to start with this. HALP, GRM!

Shop on a rainy day and spent as much time outside as possible.
Shop at the end if the month.
Without being a prick, let him/her know that you are ready to walk.
Habe your financing set up already.
If you pay more that 14,800 you paid too much.

Negotiate by email? I haven't done it because I don't buy from dealers, but I hear this is a pretty successful method. Let them know that's the only car that you're interested in* and that you're bringing your own financing or cash.

*Don't sound desperate for that car, but don't let them think they can offer some other POS for the price you are negotiating for.

According to Carfax provided in the ad, this car has sat on dealer lots for most its life. If I am reading it correct, here is what I see.
http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=3C3CFFFH3DT754471

11-11-13 Hits new car lot.

5-25-14 Sells for the first time (sat on the lot in Georgia for nearly 5 months.)

2-06-15 Traded in at Kia Dealership, Georgia 4,310 miles. That first owner kept the car for 8.5 months putting on about 500 miles per month.

2-11-15 Kia dealership pushes it right off to Honda Dealer.

7-21-15 Pushed north to current dealership in Illinois.

The current dealership has had the car for 1.5 months. I would bet if they do not sell it in the next 15 days they will take the car to auction.

That car has done a lot of sitting around. That's about the average price for those. It's only advantage is the really low miles. I would start with the E-Price and see what it comes back at and go from there. Target your $15.5K out the door and see where they go from there. It's a little aggressive as that would put the sell price in the 14K range but there is only one way to find out.

Some good advice here! Thanks everybody. Another one I'm looking at is this red 500 Turbo.

No spicy Abarth exhaust or Beats system, but it's also starting $3k cheaper. I will have to try both and see which seats agree more with my backside...

Datsun nailed it, it's really not that hard.

Figure a price, if you don't like it be willing to walk away.

From the first time I drove a BRZ to buying mine was about 8 weeks.

We couldn't agree on trade-in/price, thanked them for their time, left.

They called back when they got another on the lot, we worked on it again and came to agreeable numbers (although this time I took less since I knew in those 8 weeks the top on the miata had started leaking and the BOSE was acting up so I wanted it gone)

They had a black one coming in a week, went back and picked it up.

When I said 14.8K, I thought the car was listed at 15.6K. So offer $15 and you'll drive it home. Or buy the other one, drom a grand on a system that would shame Dr, Dre's Beats, and pocket the difference.

Am I correct that Fiat 500 Abarth version is allowed in SCCA autox but the Turbo version is not?
I think it has to do with the stiffer springs and wider stock tires on the Abarth that allow it. Otherwise, it is considered a roll over risk.
So, this begs the question, "would you want to use this car for autox?"

$12.8K for the '15 Turbo really makes the '13 Abrath seem over priced at $15.8k
Three years newer AND $3k cheaper!

You will be able to finance the newer version for longer if that is important to you.

Yeah, only the Abarth is eligible for Street Class autocross (at least with the SCCA).

In reply to JohnRW1621:

That dealer ad is a misprint, it is actually a 2013. No idea how that mistake happened. Turbo has slightly more miles and lacks the Beats system but is also much cheaper. And I don't intend to autocross until it's well out of warranty, if at all. The Abarth does get 30+ more horses, that sweet exhaust, the Beats system I actually really like, better suspension...$3k of difference? Hard to say but there's an argument there if nothing else.

You could do what I did when I bought my wife's Scion xB listed for $9800. It was at a dealer in Houston when I was in Austin. In college I had worked selling for a dealer in PA.

Ring ring:

Them: Houston auto group
Me: Sales please
Them: Sure, hang on. Pause:
Salesman: This is Tom how can I help?
Me: Hey, Tom. This is Curtis from Delaney Buick Honda. Hey that xB you have for $9800... how much do you have in it?
Tom: Not sure but I can check. Why?
Me: Well the wife REALLY wants it and I have cash. See if Jim would take $7000 plus TTL
(I had already checked the website to see that some guy named Jim was the sales manager, and also knowing it was a common trade I figured maybe they got lucky with a nice finance deal on whatever the customer bought)

An hour later Tom called back to inform me that "Jim" would do $7500 plus TTL. Sold.

SlickDizzy wrote: In reply to JohnRW1621: That dealer ad is a misprint, it is actually a 2013. No idea how that mistake happened. Turbo has slightly more miles and lacks the Beats system but is also much cheaper. And I don't intend to autocross until it's well out of warranty, if at all. The Abarth does get 30+ more horses, that sweet exhaust, the Beats system I actually really like, better suspension...$3k of difference? Hard to say but there's an argument there if nothing else.

Why wait on autocross? Changing struts, wheels and tires are all wear items not covered under warranty and therefore should not void it. In fact you can buy an upgrade kit from Abarth that has better suspension bits, etc.

Buy the car and drive it.

Datsun1500 wrote: Click get Eprice or call and tell them you need to be at $15,500 on the road. They might say yes. If they do, buy the car and don't second guess if you could have gotten it for less, just enjoy the car. If it were me, I'd call. Today is the 1st of the month and some dealers will make you a great deal Today so they can put it in last months number. There are only games, if you play them. Don't bother with the KBB, Pure cars, crap. Even if you "prove" the car is worth $x, if they won't sell it to you at that price, what does it matter? Just call and ask what you can buy the car for. If you like that number, buy it, if you don't like that number, don't buy it. It's really that easy.

Pretty much this. I've bought a ton of cars...I try to buy private when I can, but have bought a good number of them from dealers. There are tactics you can use, but at the end of the day it comes down to this...they have a product they want to sell, you have cash you're willing to part with. What are they willing to take? What are you willing to spend? If they've had a lot of interest in the car (which you can't know for sure), they may not take anything less than asking. If it's been sitting for months, they may be dying to sell. Seems like this is one that could sit, see what they're willing to do. If you're not happy, walk away.

My current DD, Chevy HHR, went like that. I test drove it, liked it. Asking price was way too high. I knew it had been on their lot quite a while. I started to walk away...literally...and as I was walking I simply said to the sales guy "If you get to the point where you just want to get slightly above auction price for it, give me a call". Dude literally ran after me and brought me back inside. I drove it away for basically auction value. On the flip side of that, I've had cars where I tried a similar tactic and the dealer laughed me off and sold it to another customer the next day.

Its also true that Fridays and Saturdays are a bit better - if the dealer works with regular sales weeks. The dealer I worked for our sales week was Tuesday through Monday. But most end on Saturday.

I have also employed the phone-a-friend technique. Ask your friends to call about the car and then when they hear the price, knock the salesman down a peg; "whoa, way too much, nevermind." Or "wow, I think I'll go with that one in [insert town 200 miles away] cause it has fewer miles and its $2000 cheaper." Word gets around the office quick that they've had a lot of interest on the car, but the price always kills the deal. Nothing is more frustrating to a dealer than an almost-sale. After a few of those on the same car, they will be more willing to negotiate.

Another thing that will be hard to quantify (for both you and the dealer) is how much they actually have IN the car. Even if it had been traded there, its not just about how much they gave the seller in trade-in value. Its how much they made on the sale of the new car which sometimes can't really be quantified just yet until the financing is finalized. These days its a little easier with instant approvals, but they don't really have a "bottom line" number they can easily access. Its even worse if they bought another used vehicle to replace this one. It gets confusing. Use that to your advantage.

Since this one came from another dealer, they may have a firm cost. You can also use that to your advantage. Keep hounding them about how much they have in it. The first 35 times they won't tell you, and you'll never actually know the real number. But tell them you'll give them 500 over what they have in it. They'll come back with a number making you think that its 500 over what they have in it. Who cares if it is or isn't. If its a number you can live with, open the checkbook. That's how I bought my Impala SS in 1996. I knew dealer invoice pricing, knew they had a holdback. Best I can figure, they made about $675 on invoice and another $1500 in holdback. Not bad for buying a limited production vehicle.

That's also how I got the job there. I knew my stuff and they offered me a position starting right away.

My current DD, Chevy HHR, went like that. I test drove it, liked it. Asking price was way too high. I knew it had been on their lot quite a while. I started to walk away...literally...and as I was walking I simply said to the sales guy "If you get to the point where you just want to get slightly above auction price for it, give me a call". Dude literally ran after me and brought me back inside. I drove it away for basically auction value. On the flip side of that, I've had cars where I tried a similar tactic and the dealer laughed me off and sold it to another customer the next day.

Yup. If you want the bargains, you have to be willing to walk away from the bargains. Lots of poker faces when you negotiate with a dealer.

1) Speak with your banker, and get financing in order when you arrive at the dealership.

It varies from state to state, but in the financing "box" is where the dealership makes most of their $$. It is legal for them to arrange financing for you at say 2.5%, when the rate is really 2.3%. (they keep the remainder) That said.....they have deep channels for financing. If they can get you 2.5% and the best your banker could do was 2.7%--- you may be better off going with the dealer and giving him the points. Check with your banker first.

2) Don't buy an extended warranty, paint protection, or any other B.S. the dealer tries to sell you while in the "box". Almost all of it is B.S. or stuff you can buy for less $$ elsewhere.

3) Dealers are people too--- they need to make a decent profit to stay in business and provide their services. Asking what they have into the car is dubious.....as they may not be honest. You can safely assume that if they are asking $15.5, they have built-in cushion for profit. Since the car has been sitting for a long time (and these cars aren't selling very well) it is costing them money. Lowball them with cash (or financing) in hand. They may be very eager to unload it--- and you may get a great deal. If they balk--- walk---- there's plenty of inexpensive Abarth's out there. (and yes, the Abarth is worth the extra $ over the standard Turbo car) Call them back a few days later--- letting them know you're serious and you still want the car--- at $13K. Pretty soon they will get frustrated and offer you the best they can do. They may even let it slip on how much they REALLY have into the car.

4) Negotiate on total price----not monthly payment. If the total price is right--- the payment will be fine. It's way too easy for them to juggle numbers / rates / extras to get you into a monthly payment that seems acceptable.

5) Treat them with the same respect that you want to be treated with. These are humans, be honest but forthright. Tell them....."This is what I can do....either you can sell the car to me at this price, or not" No games, no run-around, no going back and forth to the general sales manager. If they pull that crap--- walk. As you are walking out, tell them "call me when you are ready to sell"

6) Before you head into the dealer-- get a good night's sleep, eat, and prepare yourself mentally. Depending on the dealer, you may be swimming with sharks-- you'll need to keep your wits about you. If you don't like the dealership----walk.

Repeat this mantra-----" There are plenty of Abarths out there...... I don't have to buy this particular example" Follow logic, not emotion.

and good luck!

curtis73 wrote:

My current DD, Chevy HHR, went like that. I test drove it, liked it. Asking price was way too high. I knew it had been on their lot quite a while. I started to walk away...literally...and as I was walking I simply said to the sales guy "If you get to the point where you just want to get slightly above auction price for it, give me a call". Dude literally ran after me and brought me back inside. I drove it away for basically auction value. On the flip side of that, I've had cars where I tried a similar tactic and the dealer laughed me off and sold it to another customer the next day.

Yup. If you want the bargains, you have to be willing to walk away from the bargains. Lots of poker faces when you negotiate with a dealer.

++1 on this. I've had to get up a couple of times. Of course they are holding your keys on your trade-in so they try to delay you that way.

My favorite tactic is during the negotiation phase, simply state at what price I am willing to buy the car and then just sit there. When they start with whatever sad story they are going to tell you, just sit there and stare at them for a minute or two. For some reason it makes them very uncomfortable and they assume you are driving a hard bargin, but it avoids any type of actual bargaining or confrontation. Just sit and stare at them and eventually just say, "that's not my problem. Just please take my offer to the sales manager. Either I will buy it for my offered price today or I won't buy it." I've used this a handful of times and it seems to be an effective method. Also, as others have said, have your own financing. When the dealership tries to steer you into their finance guy act like it's an inconvenience, then agree to go see him only to see what he has to say, but make it clear you are not really interested. Tell finance guy that you are all set with a loan and you really like working with bank X and that you have done business with them for years, so if you really want my business you'd better come up with something amazing or else I'd consider paying more in interest to deal with a bank I know and trust. I used this when I bought my WRX and ended up with a 0.9% loan from Capital One for the car when I had a pre-approved loan for something like 4% from my bank. I was going to pay the thing off early, but I figured that over the term of the loan the total interest came out to a single monthly payment, so I figured no reason to pay it off. I also put about 1/2 of the price down when I bought it, which probably made the bank happy since the load would never be upside downn.

NEVER give up your keys! Offer to show them your trade or take them for a ride in it but never let them hold you and your car hostage. Back in the day you could just give them a spare key and then walk out with your regular key but now with security keys and key fobs, you can't do that.

Put them on a deadline. Tell them that they have 15 minutes to give you their best offer or you're going to walk. When the times up, walk to your car (you have the keys, right?) and leave. Magically, they'll stop you before you leave and have a number for you. Each round of negotiation should have a slightly shorter time limit. Go from 15 minutes to 10 then down to 5. If you don't have the price you want after three rounds for counter offers, leave and tell them to call you when they're ready to deal.

curtis73 wrote: Yup. If you want the bargains, you have to be willing to walk away from the bargains. Lots of poker faces when you negotiate with a dealer.

Absolutely. As soon as I meet the salesperson I tell them up front that I WILL be buying a car very soon, but I will NOT be buying a car that day. Then when it inevitably comes around to "what will it take to have you sign right now?" I throw out a number that is at the upper edge of ridiculous lowball territory. That rarely works straight off but what it does usually do is get me within a few percent of my actual target price, and eliminates a lot of tapdancing. And if they're not preaching to your choir, then politely walk. I usually get a call back a couple days later with a decent deal.

Oh, and on the subject of giving them my keys? No berking way under any circumstances. If they insisted, I'd walk right then without further discussion. No chance, deal killer, end of story, etc.

[Edit] Besides, you should be having the trade discussion as an entirely separate negotiation from the purchase. Figure out up front what you're willing to pay for the car you want. Figure out up front how you're sourcing that money - how much from your current car, how much from savings, how much from financing.

That reduces the chance for them to play sleight-of-numbers with you. The first hurdle is if they meet your purchase price. Only THEN should you move on to hurdle 2 - if they meet your selling price for the existing car. And then if - and ONLY if - you clear those first two hurdles, you see if they can do any better than your prearranged financing.

Have you driven an Abarth? I realize I'm in the minority, but I hated mine and took a massive hit selling it with low miles on it.

I liked the Abarth I test drove - quite a bit, actually - but I could see how the regular Turbo could be an unsatisfying drive.

I really need to drive both. This car will purely be a DD, no mods, no auto-x or track time, so while the differences are certainly there, the amount of dealing possible on each will certainly make a difference.

I am also not pursuing a trade at all, as my BMW is worth at least twice trade-in value on the private market. I intend to show up with about $2k cash and finance the rest if I go through with this.

Also tangentially considering a Mazda2 or Fiesta, but god dang are they hard to find with the options I want! Wish the FiST wasn't holding value so well...don't even get me started on what used Honda Fits sell for.