GRM's new project car. No, really.

JG Pasterjak wrote: Maybe I'll just run an extension cord from my hotel room. jg

You could do a modern full-size version of tether-car racing. I love it! :D

I like it, not the car, but the idea of someone checking out new technologies in the real world. Isn't Eco_modding not a motor sport ?

E-85. 85 % percent alcohol(ethanol) . Im sure everyone know this. Ethanol is a different alcohol than methanol, I guess it is less corrosive and can be made from corn or other plants, Brazil uses sugar cane. methanol is made from hydrocarbons,natural gas,coal,etc. they also have a different chemical makeup. We used to run methanol in our modifieds. a real pain in the ***. Couldn't leave any in the system. Had to flush it with gasoline after every race. The exhaust fumes were attrocious. On colder nights we used a squirt can with gasoline to get the thing started. So E-85 seems to be a more benign alcohol fuel. Just don't try to run it in your DD.

Without modifications.

To me, a car is a car. They all have potential, whether it's a malaise-era Cadillac, a `97 Malibu, Tempo, Taurus, Lincoln Mark V, Volt, Prius; anything. Congrats and good luck with the Volt! I look forward to reading what you do with it.

Cotton wrote: just have to say.....I love the variety of the cars in your garage!

Thanks! Just checked out yours - awesome collection there.

My official Chevy Volt advisor just called to see if my car had burst into flames yet (no, not really, just a typical satisfaction survey) and I told him I'd shoot him a link to this thread. The Volt team seems pretty passionate. They're car guys, just with 1s and 0s under their nails instead of dirt.

Anyway, 500 miles in and I've used .3 gallons of gas for an overall mileage of 638mpg. 486 of those miles have been on the battery (with the A/C cranked to the bezeejus and Killswitch Engage testing the limits of the speakers). By my calculations, the electricity has cost abut nine bucks (some of which the company has footed, since I plug in to the 110 at work, because my bosses are cool and forward thinking). I pretty much drive it like normal, and haven't changed any driving plans to game the numbers. It basically confirms my theory that my typical driving habits slot nicely into the wheelhouse of the car's strengths.

Oh, and it doesn't suck to drive. The brakes take some getting used to, but the extremely low center of gravity makes for very little body roll. It's heavy, but predictable. I can't wait to get some real tires on it. Curious about what they do to both mileage and handling.

jg

So are we. Thanks for the update!

JG Pasterjak wrote: My official Chevy Volt advisor just called to see if my car had burst into flames yet (no, not really, just a typical satisfaction survey) and I told him I'd shoot him a link to this thread. The Volt team seems pretty passionate. They're car guys, just with 1s and 0s under their nails instead of dirt. Anyway, 500 miles in and I've used .3 gallons of gas for an overall mileage of 638mpg. 486 of those miles have been on the battery (with the A/C cranked to the bezeejus and Killswitch Engage testing the limits of the speakers). By my calculations, the electricity has cost abut nine bucks (some of which the company has footed, since I plug in to the 110 at work, because my bosses are cool and forward thinking). I pretty much drive it like normal, and haven't changed any driving plans to game the numbers. It basically confirms my theory that my typical driving habits slot nicely into the wheelhouse of the car's strengths. Oh, and it doesn't suck to drive. The brakes take some getting used to, but the extremely low center of gravity makes for very little body roll. It's heavy, but predictable. I can't wait to get some real tires on it. Curious about what they do to both mileage and handling. jg

So at $3/gal for the 0.3 gallons so far plus the nine bucks you've done roughly 500 miles on $10. In a vehicle that gets 50 mpg, that would have cost $30 for that same distance. Not bad! Basically you'd need to get 150 mpg to equal the cost per mile at this point.

I like it so far.

Thanks for the update

Sounds like it is a good fit for the driving you are doing. Can't wait to see how it responds to some upgrades.

Those are some pretty impressive numbers on your mileage! Consider me and my Caprice wagon extremely jealous.

I told her you'd gone 638 miles on .3gal/gas, now SWMBO wants one.

Interesting thread and it mirrors the results of the two friends I know with Volts(one traded in a Pruis that she liked, the other a real "rocket scientist'). Both couldn't be happier with their Volts and are enjoying tremendous fuel economy. I've driven them and they are quite good. With the attractive lease rates out here(and zero down, etc) there is a very good chance my fleet will soon have a new addition.

Sure hope you put some Seafoam in the fuel tank. Sounds like you're going to have some vintage gasoline in there after awhile!

Interesting point.
If 500 miles is .33 of 1gal then 1 gal would go 1500 miles.
10 gallons would go 15,000 miles.
At 15,000 miles the gas could last more than a year for many drivers.

Edit: research shows the Volt tank volume is 9.3 but since I rounded up to .33 gallons for easy math, the answer should still be close to the same in that you could have gas in the tank that is more than a year old!

The Volt will start the engine periodically to keep everything lubricated, so it will use some gas whether it needs to or not. Not sure if I'd want a tank of gas to last that long, I think I'd just keep less fuel in the thing.

To my knowledge—JG, correct me if I'm wrong—even if you run on electricity all the time, the Volt will fire up the gas engine often enough to burn one tank of fuel per year. To both keep the engine in running order and to keep the fuel fresh. I remember the ad copy saying something like "but never without your permission," meaning it would ask you if you if it could fire up the gasser for maintenance. Of course, that may have changed with a software update in the interim.

How do you figure when to change the oil? Does it record gas engine hours?
Of course, it likely tells you when to change on the screen.

Alan Cesar wrote: To my knowledge—JG, correct me if I'm wrong—even if you run on electricity all the time, the Volt will fire up the gas engine often enough to burn one tank of fuel per year. To both keep the engine in running order and to keep the fuel fresh. I remember the ad copy saying something like "but never without your permission," meaning it would ask you if you if it could fire up the gasser for maintenance. Of course, that may have changed with a software update in the interim.

Yes and kind of. The main parameters in play are getting the engine hot enough to evaporate any condensed water from the crankcase, and to keep the fuel fresh. To this end, the engine wants to run about once a month. It will ask first, but if you keep saying "no" eventually it will say "tough E36 M3."

The other parameter is that supposedly it wants to go through a tank of gas every year. Although, looking at some of the numbers of voltstats.net (I'm "GRM Volt"), there area lot of folks who seem to be on a path of using less than that in the course of a year, so maybe HAL isn't as pushy as we're led to believe.

In any case, my overall mileage will drop at some point. I haven't done any highway trips yet, but once I do and run in Range Extended mode for a while I'll start using some of the dino juice.

And, yes, the engine basically has a hobbs meter monitoring the operating hours that lets you know when it's time for an oil change.

jg

Modern gas is just fine after a year. Or two.

I've heard about 6 to 12 months for shelf life of gasoline, without any additives. I just got my '64 Corvair running last night, it had been off the road for about a year or so, and when I siphoned the fuel from the tank to prime the pump it was very yellow and not fresh smelling. It did still run on it, but then, the Corvair engine is about as complicated as a Toro mower.

The other issue is that gasoline formulations change throughout the year, so you could be running on "winter gas" (which has more volatiles in it) in the heat of July, or vice versa. Not sure how the engine will deal with that, or how adverse the effects will be.

Thanks for the update JG!

Out of curiosity, with the type of driving that you seem to do what would be the advantage of a Volt over say a Leaf besides the extended range?

From my understanding the only maintenance on a Leaf is rotate tires every 5k miles. Essentially eliminating any of the petrol based drive train would save you some maintenance over time no?

Still interested to see where this goes and hopefully change my perception of the Volt a bit.

The0retical wrote: Thanks for the update JG! Out of curiosity, with the type of driving that you seem to do what would be the advantage of a Volt over say a Leaf besides the extended range? From my understanding the only maintenance on a Leaf is rotate tires every 5k miles. Essentially eliminating any of the petrol based drive train would save you some maintenance over time no? Still interested to see where this goes and hopefully change my perception of the Volt a bit.

My typical driving habits mesh very well with the Volt's strengths. My commute to the office (three days a week—Wednesday and Friday I work from home) is exactly 20 miles each way. And it's very mileage-friendly, 60-65mph surface highway with few stoplights until I get into town the last four miles or so. A 70-75 freeway commute would not be nearly as efficient.

When I hop into the car on a full charge, my range estimate currently shows 44-45 miles (it learns your habits and adjust the range estimates accordingly). After I make my 20 mile drive to work, my estimate shows 22-25 miles left, depending on how I hit the lights, how hard the a/c is running, etc. I plug in to the 110 at work, but I have made it back home on a single charge. Also, pretty much anything I do (groceries, Lowe's, parents, in-laws) is roughly between home and work, give or take five miles.

I would say the only way I've changed my driving habits with the car away from what I'd normally be doing is an extra trip to Buffalo Wild Wings. They have a free 220v charger for customers, so we've gone there for dinner once or twice. It's outside of my usual route, and their food kind of sucks, but I like to support businesses that take creative approaches to marketing. Maybe I'll find something decent on the menu someday.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote: It's outside of my usual route, and their food kind of sucks, but I like to support businesses that take creative approaches to marketing. Maybe I'll find something decent on the menu someday. jg

Their Caribbean Jerk wings are ok.

The0retical wrote: Out of curiosity, with the type of driving that you seem to do what would be the advantage of a Volt over say a Leaf besides the extended range?

To answer this more specifically, if I lived in a more densely populated area, a Leaf would make way more sense. With a 70-80 mile range, I see too many excuses creeping into my driving habits. A trip to Orlando or Jacksonville would be out, and forget a long road trip. In the Volt, I could hop in and drive to Road Atlanta (425ish miles) with one gas stop, and end up with about a 45-48mpg overall average if I started out with a full battery.

The other cool thing about the gas motor operation is that putting 9.3 gallons of gas into a tank takes about a minute and a half. Even if an electric car had a 300-mile range on the battery, moving that electricity into those batteries will take some time.

Right now, the Volt uses roughly 10kwh to go 45 miles or so (I'm rounding for simplicity). That's about 4 miles per kwh. Let's assume electric cars of the future are twice as efficient and get 8 miles per kwh. Well, you'll still need about 37kwh to go 300 miles. And moving that electricity from point A to point B takes time. Even just transmitting that much power would take some time, let alone getting it into a storage battery.

jg

I keep kidding my 9 year old daughter that her future will be driving around in electric pods. She is almost concerned about it as she thinks the little pod cars are not good.