GTI vs. Cooper S vs. Integra - What Car?

HI, my name is Phil and I have Automotive ADD.

A few months ago, I posted about getting a Tacoma to replace my S4 (Am I Nuts?)  I'm still shopping, but changed direction a bit.  I thought I wanted a new GTI after driving one. Still fun, but more economical and a bit smaller than my S4 with warranty and updated tech.  I didn't think MINI was making manuals anymore, but I was wrong. So I've started looking at the Cooper S and the JCW as well.  The website only lets me build the 2 door with a manual, but their press materials state the 4 doors can come with them as well. Another car in that range is the new Integra A-Spec. 

Commonalities: 6MT, more refined interiors than standard economy cars (my Audi has spoiled me), and all are getting good reviews and all in the same price range optioned the way I want. 

I'm having a hard time finding a GTI that isn't marked up from it's advertised price (should be illegal!) or has a ton of dealer ad-ons (one tacked on $9k of stuff), and my local dealer can't order them.  They only get their allotment. I plan on driving a MINI hopefully tomorrow, but it is Auto. No local dealers have an Integra. I'm not buying a new car I can't test drive. 

I do need to be able to carry my currently 5 yr old daughter for the next several years in a booster seat. I need to do a test fit in the MINI for that. GTI and Integra should be no problem.  The other thing I want is a somewhat good ride. No worse than the S4. The GTI and Integra have semi-active dampers, optional on the Cooper S, but I can't find info on the JCW. 

Before anyone says Hyundai/Kia or Toyobaru twins, those aren't what I'm looking for. The Korean options don't do anything for me and the BRZ/86 don't get much better MPG than the S4 somehow. The new Civic Type R looks nice, but I hate red interiors and good luck getting one at MSRP. And the SI may deserve a look, but not sure it would be refined enough and the SI tax. 

TRDL: Auto ADD is driving me crazy. I think I've narrowed it down to the three cars in the topic.  Musts: MT, 4 seater (for occasional kid duties), refined interior, better MPG than an S4, good commuter for Michigan roads, reliable, warranty.

Thanks for listening to me ramble - again 

Integra.

I haven't looked at the newer offerings.  Having had plenty of German cars and a few Honda/Acuras, unless the numbers are very different, I'd take the Honda/Acura for reliability, comfortable commute, and fewer unhappy surprises.

Integra

From my experience test driving both, the GTI is more clinical while the MINI is more playful.  

I have driven the GTI and the SI and they are both nice. As a former VW owner when I went through my own auto ADD 4 months of car shopping I shopped similar to what you are looking at and ended up almost buying an SI (I ultimately got a Nissan Frontier). The SI is definitely worth a look and test drive. 

You listed reliability as a requirement.  That alone eliminates two candidates from your list.

Reliable vs. High maintenance are two different things.  I'm ok with over maintaining. 

The MINI has a higher rating than the Acura on Consumer Reports.  The VW isn't ranked as high but they state the lower rating is due to past history.  My luck (so far knock on wood fingers crossed) had been good with VWs and Audis. 

I'm going to be at the track tomorrow with my GTI and a new Integra so I guess I'll let you know. 

I drive an Si daily.  At work, someone has a new Integra I see in the parking lot.  It is sharp.  I'd go drive a Type S immediately.

Integra is fugly.  That kills any desire for it for me.  GTI is a really nice car, I'd pick it over a MINI, I've never liked the overly styled interiors of those and they make the VAG products look like Toyota's as far as reliability.  My 19 R was extremely reliable, only thing that broke on it for me was the front passenger grab handle...

Booster seats will fit into the back of 2 door minis without issues.  The problem is getting a sleeping kid out of there without screwing up your back.

The 4 door mini works a little better but the front door is tiny.  I had issues getting in and out around the steering wheel.  This car is closer to Veloster size than the other cars you are looking at.

The mini clubman is a closer competitor to the GTI and the Honda. It is the same length, wheelbase, width, weight, and interior room.  Everyone just thinks it is big because minis are supposed to be small.  Unfortunately, no manual though.

Test drove a MINI Cooper S 4 door at lunch.  I like it. It's quirky.  I fit in the 2 door better though. I even fit in the back seat, just don't watch me getting in or out. 

I need to spend more time with one though before making a decision. And I need to drive a 2 door since the wheelbase is shorter and I know it would ride a bit different. I'd have to go with the JCW for the seats and the power. I can't take that much of a drop from the S4...lol. 

It's still a toss up between the GTI and MINI.  I need to find an Integra to drive. Are there any good MINI forums out there that I can research the car on?  Thanks for all the feedback so far!

https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/ is the mini forum. I drove an integra last weekend and to be honest, it felt like a 30K car not a 38K car with the manual. I wanted to like it but just couldn't. I would take a MK 7.5 GTI over that any day of the week. Haven't driven the MK8 yet.

If you want a luxury car over a performance car, pick the Integra over say a GTI or  Elantra N. It's the new Buick for sure.   

docwyte said:

Integra is fugly.  That kills any desire for it for me.  GTI is a really nice car, I'd pick it over a MINI, I've never liked the overly styled interiors of those and they make the VAG products look like Toyota's as far as reliability.  My 19 R was extremely reliable, only thing that broke on it for me was the front passenger grab handle...

Late model MINIs are more reliable than any VW.

I think the GTI would be more practical,  but I would pick a JCW Clubman with a stick.  Get one off lease.

While I dearly miss my Mk 6 GTI from a driving experience perspective, I certainly don't miss the costs associated with keeping it on the road.  In ~ 100k miles of ownership since it was new, I had to get the intake valves cleaned once due to carbon buildup and poor starting characteristics when cold (direct injection related), and it was absolutely ready for cleaning #2 when I sold it to Carmax.  Also, I elected to get the (known bad design) cam chain tensioner replaced on my nickle when the powertrain warranty expired to the tune of $1,100 - mainly labor cost.  No telling if I really had to do that, but I wasn't willing to roll the dice given the damage that would happen if the OEM tensioner failed.  VW eventually reimbursed me as part of a class action settlement for the entire amount, but that was nearly 3 years after the fact.  Final kicker was rust that was becoming prevalent between the top of the rocker panels and the bottom of the front fenders where they meet, behind the front wheels.  This was on a car that was frequently washed in winter, and driven in South Western Ohio, not the best but not the worst area with respect to vehicle rust issues.  

On the other hand, our Accord has rolled up almost 160k mainly trouble free miles so far.  Even though it is also direct injected, no valve cleanings have been needed to date.  Only part failure was a starter at ~ 120k miles, and the need for one de-gunking of the throttle body.  Other than that, regular maintenance has sufficed.  Not a spot of rust to be found either.  I suspect an Integra would likely mirror the Accord in these same areas.

No experience with a MINI directly, but my brother has a used Gen 2 car and it has been pretty good to him so far, FWIW.

Elantr.... oh. well I go nothing. 

On your options, I guess I'd have to vote for the integra. I am not a fan of german over-engineering and their associated cost of ownership. I don't like the integra but if that is all you'll even look at then I guess that gets my vote. 

I'm going to guess the Genesis G70 manual isn't an option either.

In reply to bobzilla :

I looked at those but economy wasn't much better and it's as big as the S4 and not enough of an economy bump. I couldn't build an MT on the website either. 

In reply to Aspen :

No they're not.  Any of the Mk7 VW's are rock solid

OP, remind me again why you just aren't keeping the S4?  Seems like it's a better choice than anything else you're looking at.

In reply to docwyte :

1. AADD
2. 3 cars worth of maintenance and a 5 yr old kiddo. Not that the S4 is much work but I want something I can just drive for the next several years and let a dealer worry about it. I.e. not enough time.
3. MPG.  I'll be doing more long commutes to proving grounds, not just my office soon.  S4 is 20mpg combined.
4. Lower monthly costs.  Yes it is a car payment, but cash flow wise it saves me money in the long run too when I crunched the numbers between fuel and maintenance. 

Those are the biggest reasons.  I was going to keep this car for a long time, and still may, but the new car itch is strong.  I've only had one new car and it would be nice to have a warranty again. Plus save the manuals!

A Genesis G70 is interesting and probably a better actual sport sedan than the original options listed here.  I have a hard time with the grill design, but they make a lot of sense on paper.

That said, the Integra is basically a re-skinned Si so I'm not sure I'd count the Honda version out.  There still might be tactile differences due to suspension tuning, sound deadening, materials, options, etc, but the engine and platform are the same.

In reply to PMRacing :

Surprised to see you getting such low mpg's from the S4.  I had a B8 S4 that was 6mt/stage 2 and I'd easily get 32mpg out of it on the freeway.  Probably was getting 26-27mpg combined...

I'm still confused why the elantra N is not even a consideration. I've yet to meet someone that doesn't live to drive them. 

In reply to bobzilla :

Honestly, I'm just not a fan of the styling.  Specs are great and they have good reviews. But not for me.  

In reply to docwyte :

I've seen very expensive failures and not just the common ones pretty much all generations of the 2.0, including low or no oil pressure, requiring engine replacement.

We were seeing it a bunch on the older generations and had just started to see it on the newer ea888.

I have a handful of friends that have had one or a couple and it's always been either nonstop problems or absolutely no problems. People do have good luck with them, but when I take a broader look at my experience with them I'd never consider them reliable or cheap to maintain. I'm not saying don't buy one, but know what you are getting into and I'd never recommend one as a long term car.

I'm not saying modern minis are any better

In reply to PMRacing :

MPG is how I ended up in an Si.  Show me a car that is more fun to drive that gets better mileage.