Hagerty Insurance - What?

I called Hagerty, with whom I have an agreed value insurance policy on an E36 M3, to inquire about track day insurance for Hyperfest. I increased the agreed value due to the addition of a back half roll bar, seats and harnesses. Otherwise, the car is 100% stock. And got a quote for track day insurance. The next thing I know, the guys telling me that because I intend to track the car, they will not be renewing my agreed value insurance policy for the street when the policy expires in November. Something about rules/laws in the state of NC where I reside. I am fully aware that the agreed value policy provides coverage only for street use and wouldn't dream of filing a claim for damage that occurred at an HPDE event.

Is there another company that will insure a trackable street car (as opposed to a streetable track car) on the street for an agreed value knowing that it will see occasional track duty? Is my only choice to insure it with a regular insurance company and take what they give me if something happens to it? How do the rest of you insure your trackable street cars?

Don't mention that you go to the track.

Of course, ethically, you must also then not file a claim for on-track incidents.  (Which, I guess, legally you could do if the track event was a "driver's school" and not a contest of speed, but what is legally correct and what is morally right are often not the same)

Ditto, I'd never tell them. In my mind, what happens on the track is on me.

Have on track/racing insurance. Yes, it’s real and can be setup with an agreed to value. 

I’d show proof I had that and if the other company still is willing to cancel, tell them to pound sand. There are other places that will gladly take your money for coverage.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Years back, I was going to buy a very VERY nice, 35,000 mile 16v Scirocco.  (The car was about ten years old at the time, so this was great but not heroically so.  But it was still far nicer than any other 10 year old Scirocco I had ever seen)  So I contacted my insurance company (Progressive, at the time) and asked for an insurance quote.

Now, it was so long ago that I forgot the sequence of events, but at some point it became clear to them that I planned to autocross the car.  I was not an "autocrosser" at the time but I had wanted to give it a go.  I was told by the insurance agent that they could not insure me.

I specified that I fully understood that anything that happened on course was not their problem.  He said that did not matter, any kind of motorsports used in the car meant that they could not insure the car on the road under any condition.

It was at this point that young Knurled learned a valuable lesson.  (Also, I did not buy the Scirocco, because I couldn't come up with the $3500 in time.  Which was absolutely tragic because the car was perfect, and the then-owner bought the car and replaced all of the belts and hoses with OE parts and installed new Bilstein HDs and all four corners and four new Fulda tires and he decided that he was bored with it a month later and just wanted rid of it...)

I had Haggerty for my mini. I knew they wouldn't insure it on the track, so I didn't mention that I had it on the track. Just like they didn't insure my Jeeps, so why talk about my Jeeps with them?

maybe I missed it, why did you even tell them anything?

In reply to DrBoost :

If he wanted trackday insurance, it'd be hard to not tell them.

Still seems odd that they offer the two products but you can only have one when the combo makes sense.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

This! They offer both; the only potential policy issue I could see is that taking a car to the track would be an issue for the street insurance, but what could be a clearer indication that they would not be asked to incorrectly cover track damage than the fact that he would be paying them for track insurance! At that point, it should be *impossible* for him to invalidly hit them up for track coverage, because track damage would be already correctly paid for!

I've heard a lot of positive things about them, but this is Grade A asinine absurdity.

Are they sending this stuff out to external underwriters (am I using that correctly?) with their own rules, and the upshot is that they're just a facade selling literally unrelated and incompatible insurance? I'm trying to make this make sense... Is it an assumption that track use is incompatible with a level of condition and care suitable for agreed value street insurance?

Maybe they offer it to help catch their own clients breaking the terms of their classic car insurance?

In Ontario moms the word when it comes to auto insurance and any sort of motorsport's (exception is TSD rally's but I still wouldn't bring that up with an agent either).

Adam

BoxheadTim said:

In reply to DrBoost :

If he wanted trackday insurance, it'd be hard to not tell them.

Still seems odd that they offer the two products but you can only have one when the combo makes sense.

Ok, that makes sense. Not what Haggerty did, but your explanation. 

What BoxheadTim and Ransom said is dead on.

They found out because I priced track day insurance with them. I was calling to increase the agreed value for my street insurance. Thought, hey, let me find out how much their track day insurance costs. If I had known they would do this, I would have sought track day insurance elsewhere. Didn't know I was ratting myself out. It was an innocent attempt at being responsible.

Didn't matter how adamant I was that I was not racing anyone or participating in time trials, which were the words the customer service kept guy using when explaining to me why they would no longer insure my car on the street. I participate in DE events only.

I could understand the risk  if I was trying to insure an 800 hp streetable track car (greater risk of silliness and wreckage) as a DD but... a stock E36 M3? Come on.

And if I'm willing to buy insurance from them for the street AND for a specific track day event (Hyperfest), am I not covering my rear end, and there's, by doing so?

So what are the laws Hagerty referenced about North Carolina?  I'd start there for greater understanding. Insurance companies may provide insurance in a state at the state's okay.  May have nothing to do with Hagerty. 

I tried to get insurance with Hagertys for my Mini but they refused me. I was not impressed with them in the least. This story does nothing to change my opinion of them. 

I may be misunderstanding but it seems to be what they are saying is that they offer track insurance, and they offer street car insurance. track insurance is for track cars only, street for everything else. For all I know, they don't insure track cars and I'm talking out my butt, which is not uncommon. It just seems to be what I'm gathering from the conversation and I thought it should be presented.

When I set up my Hagerty's policy, I made it clear that any of the vehicles on the policy (I have 3) could be on track for a non-comp event.  They seemed fine with that, but obviously didn't cover the cars after I pulled into pit road.

I'd call back and get some details as that doesn't make sense, maybe the agent just screwed up?

Maybe it's a NC only thing?

In reply to gunner :

Hagerty offers three types of insurance:

• Street car/"normal classic car use"
• HPDE/track day insurance
• Insurance for vintage race cars

I'm wondering if the agent SHAKESBEARD talked to confused the latter two. It would kinda make sense that you can't have street car insurance on a full-on vintage race car.

No connection to Hagerty other than me sending them some money every year.

My insurance broker knows exactly what the Targa Miata is and what it's used for. We both know it's not insured when it's being driven on track or on a rally. Withholding information sounds clever until your claim gets denied.

Call an independent broker. Tell them what you need.

@SHAKESBEARD, I work at Hagerty and manage this program. Please call into our call center at 877-922-9701 and ask for the Specialty Team. I'd like to discuss this situation, as I don't believe it should have occurred.  Thank you!

In reply to SHAKESBEARD :

This is where it all went wrong:

I increased the agreed value due to the addition of a back half roll bar, seats and harnesses.

This is where the classic car became a full time "Race" car.

You increased the insurance to make sure that the car was valued for a full cost recovery. You let me know that you go to the track. Nice that you want to buy our insurance and we will take your money.

However, what about next time you go to the track? I KNOW you are going because the racing stuff is in the car and it is now a RACE car. What if next time you don't insure for the track and wreck the car? Are you going to just report is as stolen? Do you know how many classic cars go missing when it becomes convenient? Insurance companies avoid risk, and a perceived street driven race car will set off all of the alarms. The insurance company may now also have a different perception of you as a driver you evil RACE car driver person!

The only way that I know of to cleanse the situation is to "restore" the car and have it appraised with a note from the appraiser that it is to stock specifications and provide pictures.

Here in Ontario the back half roll-bar and 4 point harness would have made the car illegal for the street anyway.

Pete

Call a place like Lockton Affinity for track day insurance. 

This is additional and separate from your normal policy. 

Shakesbeard, sent you pm

In reply to SHAKESBEARD :

I work at Hagerty and manage this program. Please call into our call center at 877-922-9701 and ask for the Specialty Team. I'd like to discuss this situation, as I don't believe it should have occurred.  Thank you!

And after you call Hagerty let us know the scoop.

Pete

Yea, something doesn't sound right here, unless it is a weird NC thing. I just spoke to Hagerty a few months back when I bought the policy on my RX7 and told them I definitely plan to attend some track days with the car this year and they definitely gave no indication at the time that would be a problem. 

I spoke with a nice gentleman named Chandler from Hagerty this afternoon. I got the impression there are some idiosyncrasies associated with this kind of insurance in NC and perhaps other states too, but that all in all, it appears what happened was a mistake. It was late in the day so he was going to check on things for me in the morning during business hours.

I believe Hagerty has our best interests as enthusiasts at heart and I wasn't trying to cause any trouble. Something just didn't make sense. Thank you everyone for your responses and support. And thank you Hagerty for being there for me and the rest of our community.

Tomorrow, I'll let you know how this turns out.