Hagerty Insurance - What?

I've seen a couple cars hit each other at an autox (course had a crossover and the starter sent the second car too soon), I've seen a couple blow engines and catch fire, and a couple of corner workers get hit when they were not paying attention (texting/playing with their phones so they didn't notice the car spinning out of control towards them).  All of those are things that insurance might have to pay out for if they extend coverage.

As for Hagerty, I've found that their rules for street car coverage California are sufficiently restrictive to be useless to me.  Must be stored in a garage and if you ever even think about driving it to work then all coverage is gone.

I have had Hagerty insurance on my fun cars since 2010, including two claims that weren't my fault (DUI hit and run while street parked and towing damages). My policy (Washington State) does not cover on track use, but I can call in and add it for every event I attend if I choose to. Most of the crazy rules are due to state laws. For example, I do not have to have all of my covered vehicles garaged (the Rover lives outside). I have had nothing but extremely positive experiences in the decade plus that I've been a customer, and I signed up with them specifically because they advertised in GRM.

That article about state insurance restrictions that impact our interests is sounding better and better...

ddavidv said:

Just a guy in the business who wonders what some of you are doing at autocrosses that you think you need insurance coverage? I'd never even think of mentioning autocross to my own carrier.

Maybe you can shed some light on what to expect if a vintage car is in a wreck with standard/typical auto insurance?  

In reply to SHAKESBEARD :

If the laws in your state are anything like Ontario, having the back half roll cage makes the car illegal for the street. Hagerty will not insure a car if it knows it is illegal.

I wonder what the outcome would have been had you just called to buy single-event track insurance and left the vehicle value bump out of the equation by not mentioning the roll cage?

In reply to NOHOME :

You'll have to show me MTO regulation saying a roll bar is illegal, there's probably a catch all that can be interpreted that way but you are only going to run into trouble with it with the police if you are asking for it (aka driving like a moron and attracting attention to yourself in other ways such as a loud exhaust). Give them a reason to throw the book at you and they will, be responsible and considerate and they'll probably compliment the car and wonder what cool, legal things you get up to it with it.

The reality is that our insurance here cannot exclude things like speed tests on private property (autocross, rallyx, drag test and tune, open lapping etc.) so instead they right it into our policies that if you use your vehicle for ANY of these things your insurance is null and void. Here is the line from the Financial Services Commissions of Ontario who regulate this in their form for automotive insurance in Ontario, you'll find a similar line in the fine print of your policy.

"1.4.6 You agree not to use or allow anyone to use the automobile in a race or speed test or for
any illegal trade or transportation. "

So in an insurance companies eyes in Ontario competing in your local autocross is the exact same as using your car as a get away vehicle after robbing a bank and will allow them to cancel your policy and reject your claim. It's really unfortunate, we have people racing on the street and the police getting behind programs to "take it to the track" which is great and we are blessed with some awesome, affordable venues to do that. The reality is though that if your insurance provider catches wind of it your policy is canceled and good luck finding a new one, guess what question they always ask when getting a quote. Luckily you have to have insurance here so you can just purchase it through facility insurance with all of the drivers that have been convicted of a DUI!

Bringing this back around, roll bars in your insurance companies eyes are giant red flags that you will be using the vehicle in a way that brings them a lot of risk and so they will very quickly turn you away. 

In the case of Hagerty they are up front about this and ask the questions when you are getting a quote and make it extra clear in their policies, I think they are just more aware of things like this as they attract enthusiasts. In places where the legislation allows them to they support these types of uses and even offer extra track day insurance, hell they even own Motorsportreg now! It's a shame that the laws have been written the way they are in a lot of places.

Luckily my cars are never, ever used for anything like the above.

Well, that was long. I've really been trying to avoid this thread as this topic just boils my blood. The premiums we pay in the province for our coverage just to have it written right in there what we aren't allowed to do with our own vehicles on private property in a safe, responsible and legal way drives me crazy. I think a bank or financial institution has every right to insist on this for a vehicle that is financed or leased through them but for anything fully owned it is ridiculous. 

Luckily my cars are never, ever used for anything like the above.

It seems like it would behoove Hagerty (and all the other insurers of nifty cars) to clarify this stuff so that when all the car nuts get together on an international forum we don't have all this apparently contradictory behavior when we compare notes.

pushrod36 said:

ddavidv said:

Just a guy in the business who wonders what some of you are doing at autocrosses that you think you need insurance coverage? I'd never even think of mentioning autocross to my own carrier.

Maybe you can shed some light on what to expect if a vintage car is in a wreck with standard/typical auto insurance?  

"It varies"

In my state a car is worth whatever the market value is deemed to be. The problem is that the market value is usually determined by a third party vendor that relies on data culled from dealerships, auctions and so on. Most collector cars don't fall into that so it skews the values downward. Getting collector cars involved in losses is so rare for me I can't give you any good examples.

The take away is, if you truly value your investment you'll insure it appropriately.

adam525i said:

In the case of Hagerty they are up front about this and ask the questions when you are getting a quote and make it extra clear in their policies, I think they are just more aware of things like this as they attract enthusiasts. In places where the legislation allows them to they support these types of uses and even offer extra track day insurance, hell they even own Motorsportreg now! It's a shame that the laws have been written the way they are in a lot of places.

Plot twist:  They purchased motorspotreg so they can make sure none of their customers are racing!  

In truth, I don't believe that.   I am a fan of most things that Hagerty does, and find them to be good for our hobby/community.