I think you'll spend more in time, parts, and gas doing a swap instead of just leaving it alone or buying something different. Would a ring and pinion swap be enough to get by for now? Rent/borrow something for long tows?
I think you'll spend more in time, parts, and gas doing a swap instead of just leaving it alone or buying something different. Would a ring and pinion swap be enough to get by for now? Rent/borrow something for long tows?
Duke said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:Finish the lemans and tow the boat with that
Definitely the end game here.
Buy a replacement frame from Year One or somebody before you even think of trying that. Seriously.
Already have a couple ideas in mind for that. I have a Speedtech frame stiffening kit which could go on a good used frame, and I have also been talking with Schwartz performance about taking their G-force chassis and focusing more on beefy and less weight reduction. It's not that their frames are not beefy enough for towing, just that the thickness of the tubing walls might not be good for holding the bolts for a hitch. We've been talking about just welding a hitch to one of their frames.
I think that the $13k buy-in plus their initial ballpark of an additional $2500 for a crosstube might keep me out of next year's challenge.
You've gotta broaden your horizons, Curtis--
John Brown (Forum Supporter) said:If it matters at all I would choose the LS if you are running an automatic and a 5.0 if you are running a stick.
The T5 will hold up to a 5.0 in the truck very well. I punished mine with 11.70 runs for three years on a 4.10 gear driving like an idiot AS LONG AS THE GOOD QUALITY AFTERMARKET SHIFTER HAS BEEN ADJUSTED PROPERLY.
The LS can just have a properly built 4L60/80e.
Agreed on the T5, but part of what makes them handle the torque is the car-like gear ratios. I would need to swap both axles from the 3.73s to 4.56s to make a T5 work with 32" tires and 8000 lbs combined vehicle weight.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Duke said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:Finish the lemans and tow the boat with that
Definitely the end game here.
Buy a replacement frame from Year One or somebody before you even think of trying that. Seriously.
We've been talking about just welding a hitch to one of their frames.
I think that the $13k buy-in plus their initial ballpark of an additional $2500 for a crosstube might keep me out of next year's challenge.
stanger_mussle (Forum Supporter) said:What about a regear? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't all the 4L Brangers get the 8.8 rear axle? A regear on a Ford 8.8 is pretty cheap.
Being a 4x4, it would be two re-gears. D35 front, 8.8 rear. It currently has 3.73s and 32" tires.
Regearing wouldn't really help. It would help get me moving, but on the highway I have a stick in the floor that let's me choose final drive ratios anwhere from 14:1 to 3:1. A regear would only change the speed at which I downshift to 3rd and wait for the trucks to pass. Bottom line is the available torque. A gear swap means I shift between 3rd and 4th instead of 2nd and 3rd, but I will still top the mountain at 45 mph with either one.
A 401 CJ said:My first thought, and I haven’t read the whole thread, is why not experiment with a remotely mounted turbo. They aren’t optimal but they’ve been shown to work. Extremely well even in some cases. Lag shouldn’t be an issue since you aren’t racing and have the whole hill to spool it up. Use plenty of wrap to keep the exhaust temps up on their long journey to the turbine. I think it’d be a fun experiment.
Quick recap: 9:1 compression + cast pistons + boost = boom. These engines above about 225 hp like to either A) turn pistons into dust, or B) relocate rod bolts to the oil pan.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:I think you'll spend more in time, parts, and gas doing a swap instead of just leaving it alone or buying something different. Would a ring and pinion swap be enough to get by for now? Rent/borrow something for long tows?
Much truth, however I specifically chose this exact truck for the fact that it was a FL truck with zero rust and low miles, it's exactly what I wanted, and it is perfect in every single way for my needs... except power. There is nothing wrong with it except that in 1994 manufacturers were just really starting to figure out how to make power without pissing off the smog police. The 4.0L OHV was particularly stuck in the dark ages of "we'll keep making this wheezer until we figure it out" genre.
I knew it would likely need more oomph when I bought it, I just didn't really research how limited the 4.0L was when it came to upgrades.
This thread's been fun, but really...
Explorer 5.0 is the answer here, isn't it, Curtis?
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
I still like the idea of a Mitsubishi 4.9l turbo diesel...
What about the Cummins R2.8 repower kits? Seems relatively straightforward, although probably not the cheapest option.
Do you still have to smog a 25+ year old vehicle?
I'd go with an explorer 302 which should come with gt40p heads and roller hydraulic valve train. Drop an e303 or even a b303 cam in it, and party down.
that combo with an rpm air gap should about double your hp.
another idea that just came to me: ford 4.2 v6 - should fit same as a 302, and they were available with the m50d manual trans and 4x4 in the f150 from 97-03. In the f150 I think they were rated to tow 5000lbs with a 3.08 rear gear so should be able to handle your boat with a ranger
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:NSG370 did trip my radar for those sweet ratios. Manufacturer says 272 input torques. That doesn't seem like much, especially since 300-350 is really easy in the engines I'm considering. That's the trans they put in the Liberty and Cherokee, right? If so, it should come in Mopar, Mercedes, and Jeep flavors on the bellhousing end? Three engine patterns from manufacturers I hadn't considered.
Now, if that Mercedes flavor was the same bellhousing as the OM606, I'd be salivating. But I don't think it is.
Changing gas to diesel or vice versa is a big EPA no-no, isn't it? Regardless, as a thought exercise, do the OM606 and OM617 use the same bellhousing pattern?
The NSG370 never went into the Cherokee from the factory, but it is an easy/awesome mod. The Liberty NSG370 only works with the Liberty motor, something about the input shaft being too short to work with an adapter. You would need a NSG370 from a Wrangler Unlimited early enough to still have a 4.0. Could be getting rare. It is an integrated bellhousing, so it gets a little bit picky.
I was going to say what about the 3.8 split port from the New Edge mustang? That is about 190-195hp.
Another alternative could be the 4.2 v6 out of the F150.
Crazy idea... 3800+T5 from a crammit?
I'm late to this thread, but the only answer for an engine swap is LS. None of the engines mentioned so far are cheaper. Few (if any) make more power. With the possible exception of the wheezy SBF, no swap is easier either.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I remember when schwartz was just a guy that brought a two tone coupe deville to one of the hot rod magazine drag events
I’m going to go with the crowd and vote Explorer 5.0.
As for the Impala, when you have one of those, you don’t need a boat.
Edit: if you buy a parts vehicle for the swap, I’d be interested in the rear axle, if I haven’t found an 8.5 for the S10 yet.
In reply to matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) :
You can swap gas to diesel in some states without too much trouble. I know it's possible here in NC. You have to get a new title to reflect the fuel change.
Nope, the OM617 and OM60x use different bellhousing patterns.
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I remember when schwartz was just a guy that brought a two tone coupe deville to one of the hot rod magazine drag events
I parked my diplomat next to him at the power tour stop in Joliet around 2001(?) maybe? That was a cool car
John Brown (Forum Supporter) said:If it matters at all I would choose the LS if you are running an automatic and a 5.0 if you are running a stick.
The T5 will hold up to a 5.0 in the truck very well. I punished mine with 11.70 runs for three years on a 4.10 gear driving like an idiot AS LONG AS THE GOOD QUALITY AFTERMARKET SHIFTER HAS BEEN ADJUSTED PROPERLY.
The LS can just have a properly built 4L60/80e.
Personally, I don't like towing a trailer with a stick shift. I certainly wouldn't want to be trying to pull a 3500lb rig out of the water on a wet ramp with one.
So a truck or SUV but an F-150 is too big. Some V8 torque for boat pulling. I think the answer is clear.
spitfirebill said:John Brown (Forum Supporter) said:If it matters at all I would choose the LS if you are running an automatic and a 5.0 if you are running a stick.
The T5 will hold up to a 5.0 in the truck very well. I punished mine with 11.70 runs for three years on a 4.10 gear driving like an idiot AS LONG AS THE GOOD QUALITY AFTERMARKET SHIFTER HAS BEEN ADJUSTED PROPERLY.
The LS can just have a properly built 4L60/80e.
Personally, I don't like towing a trailer with a stick shift. I certainly wouldn't want to be trying to pull a 3500lb rig out of the water on a wet ramp with one.
I've done that multiple times without any difficulty (pulling a heavy boat out of the water with a stick shift) with my first gen Tacoma. The answer was having it in 4 low, and I'm sure that the low RPM torque of the TRD supercharger didn't hurt. I don't think I ever had to lock the rear diff.
It was it was actually kind of fun. It had the hand operated parking brake so you could give a touch of throttle, get the clutch almost engaged, and release the brake while rolling into the throttle and easing out the clutch all at the same time. Sounds complicated, but was really easy, and the rig would just pop out of the water and up the ramp.
My wife did it perfectly on her first try on a wet and steep ramp.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:So a truck or SUV but an F-150 is too big. Some V8 torque for boat pulling. I think the answer is clear.
Ha!
That's never been the answer to any question that was asked by a sober person.
It is the answer to:
How cans I make this truck unnecessarily heavy?
How can I create the slowest vehicle with the most horsepower?
How can I make this large cargo area virtually useless?
Strizzo said:Do you still have to smog a 25+ year old vehicle?
Yes unfortunately. It's just a visual in my part of PA. OBD2 gets plugged in for a status check and visual. OBD1 (which is me) and earlier just gets visual. It's pretty easy to get around but I see no need for it. If I do a swap I'll stay within the spirit of the rules; same year or newer engine, keep cats, etc. One of the Impala SS guys around here had clogged cats so he gutted them and then used software to write out the downstream O2 and he passes just fine, but I wouldn't go that far. Too many trees to hug for me.
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:NSG370 did trip my radar for those sweet ratios. Manufacturer says 272 input torques. That doesn't seem like much, especially since 300-350 is really easy in the engines I'm considering. That's the trans they put in the Liberty and Cherokee, right? If so, it should come in Mopar, Mercedes, and Jeep flavors on the bellhousing end? Three engine patterns from manufacturers I hadn't considered.
Now, if that Mercedes flavor was the same bellhousing as the OM606, I'd be salivating. But I don't think it is.
Changing gas to diesel or vice versa is a big EPA no-no, isn't it? Regardless, as a thought exercise, do the OM606 and OM617 use the same bellhousing pattern?
The NSG370 never went into the Cherokee from the factory, but it is an easy/awesome mod. The Liberty NSG370 only works with the Liberty motor, something about the input shaft being too short to work with an adapter. You would need a NSG370 from a Wrangler Unlimited early enough to still have a 4.0. Could be getting rare. It is an integrated bellhousing, so it gets a little bit picky.
It is a hairy EPA challenge, but the EPA punts to states to make their own choices... for now. In PA I have to do the swap, get an enhanced inspection to make sure I kept all the emissions equipment intact and functioning from the donor vehicle, then apply for a new title to reflect the new fuel type. If I put in an OM606 from a 99 E300TD, I'm supposed to have all the 1999 Benz stuff (or a suitable equivalent) as far as emissions is concerned. For the most part, PA lets things get hazy. The gap between the donor car's engine and my truck (from 94 to 99) can be a bit of a gray area for most inspectors. If I put a 99 OM606 in it, but used a mechanical fuel pump from a 1994 OM617, they would likely let it pass. They're also pretty lenient on the things that don't matter. If, for instance, I went with a 302, they wouldn't care if I got the block from a 75 F150 or a 95 Mustang. They would, however, balk at a Qjet on top of it. They can turn a blind eye to things that don't matter, but by 1994 everything was EFI.
There are other things you negotiate or get clarity on. When I was in L.A. I had a dream of putting a Viper V10 in the Impala. The referee made all kinds of concessions. He didn't care what catalytic converters were in it as long as they were there and functioned. The letter of the law meant I was supposed to use absolutely everything including the evap canister, vacuum line part numbers, and air intake from the Viper. He knew that those things didn't really matter, so he would let them slide.
re: bellhousings: I think the 617 and 606 have the same pattern, but the Vee engines used a different pattern. So the Benz pattern that might be behind the Daimler CRD in the LIberty is likely different than the 606/617 pattern. If that were the case, I'd be all over an OM606/NSG swap.
You'll need to log in to post.
