So, I'm looking for tires for the E46 touring, and was considering a 235/40/17 Nitto NT05 or a 225/45/17 Hankook RS3. While this is the family car, it sees very little mileage, but will get auto-xed. We have snow tires for the other 8 months...
Thoughts?
Hankook if you can find them in stock.
The Nittos are a little dicey in the wet...
Hankooks are very dicey in the wet. Or cold. They are great tires otherwise though.
Why these two choices? Considered the Z1s?
The Nittos aren't bad, though. In heavy rain, they were a little dicey. They also lost a bit of grip when the outside temps went down to about 40F. They start to get a little dicey around freezing temps.
I'll have a fuller comparison with Dunlop Star Specs in a week at my next AutoX.
In comparison, the Star Specs seem like a better rain tire. Driving home from the shop with the Dunlops just mounted, I ran through a decent rain shower, and they seemed quite stable, even with a slight bit of toe out in front.
I can't really speak too much in AutoX comparison until I compete in them though.
None of the above.
I'd go with the Continental DW for a family car. Go up a little in width/down in diameter to help autocross performance like a 245/40R17.
As far as autocross performance, It will handle a lot better on a dedicated set R-compounds even some old used ones.
ProDarwin wrote: Hankooks are very dicey in the wet. Or cold. They are great tires otherwise though. Why these two choices? Considered the Z1s?
Que? I live in Washington State and have found the Hankooks to be pretty good in the cold, and excellent in the wet compared to the other 140-200TW ST-type tires.
That being said, an ST-class tire on a DD makes no sense. You want 1 step down (think the DZ101 vrs the Star Spec, or the Ventus V-12 Evo vrs. the RS-3). That's the sweet spot for a real street tire that can still perform IMO.
Hankooks blow in the wet compared with the Z1s, AD08s, and R1Rs. What size wheel/tire? What class do you run? I haven't run on the RE11s in wet, and we all know that the XS are terrible in the wet as well.
We have contemplated a set of R1Rs for wet/cold events just because it gets old getting absolutely slaughtered due to no grip. It's not like I'm the only data point for this, its well known that they take heat to work.
ProDarwin wrote: Hankooks blow in the wet compared with the Z1s, AD08s, and R1Rs. What size wheel/tire? What class do you run? I haven't run on the RE11s in wet, and we all know that the XS are terrible in the wet as well. We have contemplated a set of R1Rs for wet/cold events just because it gets old getting absolutely slaughtered due to no grip. It's not like I'm the only data point for this, its well known that they take heat to work.
Well I haven't driven the Z1 or the AD08, but I have driven the R1R and I think that was the worse ST tire in the wet ever, so obviously there's some disconnect. I have a 225/45/15 R-S3 on the 944 now, and before I've had the 205/50/15 and 195/60/14's in 615, 615K, and R1R. I've driven cars with similar sizes on the RE01R, RE11, and some much larger size (275/40/17) 615's.
And sorry, but anything that is "well known" to SCCA autocrossers I take with the amount of salt KFC uses per day...
Javelin wrote: I have driven the R1R and I think that was the worse ST tire in the wet ever, so obviously there's some disconnect.
There is a reason GRM used it to compare to the Contis in their wet test... the R1R was the top dog of wet tires in ST.
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/splish-splash/
You may want to define what you consider wet.
Are we talking standing water or just a damp surface? It is going to make a difference on what tire you want.
Again "family car". As someone else hinted look at the TireRack's Max Performance category: Continental DW or Pilot Super Sports if you want to spend more. Rebated Kumho LE Sports or Hankook V12s if you are cheap. The Super Sports might actually be the best option.
ProDarwin wrote:Javelin wrote: I have driven the R1R and I think that was the worse ST tire in the wet ever, so obviously there's some disconnect.There is a reason GRM used it to compare to the Contis in their wet test... the R1R was the top dog of wet tires in ST. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/splish-splash/
That's not wet, that's a damp mist. Call me when you have an inch of standing water on the whole track, 6" of rain coming during the race, and puddles 3-4" deep. 
Well, the two choices were largely cost:performance ratio driven. Either set can be had for ~$550. The last "terrible in rain" tires I had were the original Azenis on a neon, which I found to be very good in non-standing water...that might be coloring my choice.
I should explain further: I'll have a set of all-seasons on the factory wheels for longer trips and once the weather gets 'cold', the car very rarely enters the category of "needs to be used", and the tire sizes were chosen for future fitment on the weekend-only E30 for late this summer and next year...
Are the Conti DW's pretty good? I certainly don't want a tire that fails/chunks after a day of autoxing....
Javelin wrote:ProDarwin wrote:That's not wet, that's a damp mist. Call me when you have an inch of standing water on the whole track, 6" of rain coming during the race, and puddles 3-4" deep.Javelin wrote: I have driven the R1R and I think that was the worse ST tire in the wet ever, so obviously there's some disconnect.There is a reason GRM used it to compare to the Contis in their wet test... the R1R was the top dog of wet tires in ST. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/splish-splash/
Ring Ring
195/50/15 R1R's, had a puddle 4-5" deep that was lifting the nose of the Swift off the ground at 40mph. That was the ONLY place I had any "problems". The majority of the course had 1-2" of standing water. I thought the R1R's were absolutely phenomenal.
Javelin wrote: That's not wet, that's a damp mist. Call me when you have an inch of standing water on the whole track, 6" of rain coming during the race, and puddles 3-4" deep.
It is wet. On anything other than almost-dry or dry pavement the RS3s have been not good for me. Too unpredictable. Also, seems like cars running R1Rs seem to take top pax (or very close to it) at quite a few wet events.
R1R's on my CRX (their first time out) heavy downpour at Michelin Proving Grounds (AKA Black Lake) .... I've never ever experienced that level of grip in the wet .... unbelievable grip
I'vs had a set of Z1s on an e36 M3 track-car-with-a-license-plate for 2+ years. They'vs been used to drive to events and have done a lot of lapping and instructing in both dry and wet. They wear like iron, evenly, and while the grip has diminished, they've got like 200 heat cycles on 'em. They've earned it.
I like 'em so much I got a set in 195-50/15 for the NA, on which they're equally awesome. I've disliked Dunlops on motorcycles forever. Even when they were THE tire, but Z1s? Favorite street tires ever.
ProDarwin wrote: Hankooks are very dicey in the wet. Or cold. They are great tires otherwise though.
I drove from CT to NC in torrential downpours at 80mph (aka the slow lane on the NJ Turnpike) and was very happy with the performance of my Hankook RS3s. No hydroplaning unless I hit the 3 inch deep puddles in the fast lane passing someone. Once in NC I spent the weekend running Deal's Gap in snow showers. I ran out of comfort with the cornering speeds I could attain long before the tires ran out of grip. All this with 225/45/15s on my Miata.
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