It seems that this is a microcosm of so much of corporate America. It's too hard, and takes too long to compete on quality and features, so they just give up and push style. By the time that the well runs dry, the CEO and his pals are kicking it on their golden parachute.
In HD's defense..I know there have been higher up's who were worried for the future. These were the guys who realized that HD hadn't really had to sell a bike for years. The bikes sold themselves to guys buying into the dream.
I don't see this as an us vs them conversation wherein cruiser guys are on one side and Buell guys on another. Most cruiser guys were way cool to me when I showed up on a Buell to any gathering. It's strictly HD the company doing this.
Hell, do you think HD riders liked it when the mother company was sold to AMF in the 70's? I do think the company deserves some chiding. They should've fixed these problems when they had the cash to do it. Course, arm chair quarterbacking is easy.
HD will survive tho. I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the new XR 1200.
I work for H-D. I have for 13 years. I can honestly say - I really like working there. I am THANKFUL for my job.
I have watched the company waste so many resources because they were making money hand over fist and didn't care when whole coils of steel went "missing" when people made bad parts and just used another coil and didn't record the bad parts as scrap. I've watched leadership not prosecute employees for violating company policy because they don't want to upset the relationship with the union or are flat out just lazy about it. I've watched so much mis-management that I want to scream!
I've watched my plant (York, PA) go from a very loosely run operation promoting a family relationship to an operation run in panic trying to meet goals so they won't move our jobs to another location.
I am the most flexable employee I know - I go where they need me and I do what I need to do - I always have - my work ethic is very old school - you work and you EARN for what you have. This WAS the American way.
Now we were told that if we don't vote in the next labor contract (we are union) we will all lose our jobs in the next two years. There has been no guarantee that we will have a job even if we DO vote the contract in- no matter what we say or what they give us.
I'm not much of a "Union-Head". I have watched my hard work and work ethic get paid just as much as the screw-off that works across the aisle from me. I can't get promoted if I work harder and I get told by my "brotherhood" that if I work harder that I am making them look bad.
The sale of Buell comes as a bit of a shock - but scuttlebut in the plant has been that H-D and Buell have been on the rocks for quite some time.
Not long after I was hired I thought of the phrase: "This is the biggest back-yard operation I have ever seen!"
A tiger can't change its stripes - at least not quickly.
Will the stripe change happen fast enough to save the company? How about our jobs in York?
God only knows.
In reply to seeker589:
What you describe is interesting, almost like HD was in a time warp to where the American car industry was in 1968 - fat and lazy. The sad thing is that they could have used some of that immense waste on genuine state-of-the-art engineering. I'm sure that many would say "That's not what HD is all about" But something like Buell was a perfect opportunity to expand while not diluting the core. But they whiffed. It's disgusting.
On a tangent here: I spent several hours with the main motor designer on the Cannondale motorcycle attempt. Ironically, he had a lot of HD circle-track racing background, as well as with Bombadier. Anyway, they came real close to pulling it off, but fell short. One of the basic problems was that the Canondale designers came from a different culture - bicycles, and just couldn't find the right combination of brilliant design, whimsy and practicality. So it's hard, but they had a fraction of the resources that HD had. HD just lacked the will.
In reply to kreb:
You are absolutely right on the misdirected engineering. Many times we suggested that they look at stepping out of the heavyweight motorcycle realm and make light single cyl commuter bikes - like a cruiser Blast or something.
They said it wasn't the Harley way and that it wouldn't sell because it wasn't a Vtwin.
Right now people are looking for a good standard motorcycle and so many manufacturers have the hardware to build one and are missing the mark entirely. Harley included.
Speaking of the "Heavyweight Motorcycle" idea - Why on earth would ANYONE want a motorcycle that was heavy? Isn't the point of having a motorcycle being nimble and quick and fast? I owned a 2007 Electra-Glide for about a year - sold it cause I couldn't get past the idea of having a 650 lb motorcycle.
Saw my first XR1200 yesterday. Great looking bike.
I focused my senior project in college (architecture) on the Buell motorcycle, it was a design celebrating the past, present and future of Harley Davidson. The past portion of the project was a museum, the present was a factory for the Buell motorcycle and the future was represented by a test track and research facility. I called up the folks at Buell and asked if I could come visit them, they said sure, come on up. So I drove up in the middle of winter, I think the place was in Wisconsin if I remember correctly. This was before Harley bought them out, they were their own independent operation. Those folks couldn't have been nicer and more generous, it was a pleasure seeing their operation!
seeker589 wrote: I work for H-D. I have for 13 years. I can honestly say - I really like working there. I am THANKFUL for my job. I have watched the company waste so many resources because they were making money hand over fist and didn't care when whole coils of steel went "missing" when people made bad parts and just used another coil and didn't record the bad parts as scrap. I've watched leadership not prosecute employees for violating company policy because they don't want to upset the relationship with the union or are flat out just lazy about it. I've watched so much mis-management that I want to scream! I've watched my plant (York, PA) go from a very loosely run operation promoting a family relationship to an operation run in panic trying to meet goals so they won't move our jobs to another location. I am the most flexable employee I know - I go where they need me and I do what I need to do - I always have - my work ethic is very old school - you work and you EARN for what you have. This WAS the American way. Now we were told that if we don't vote in the next labor contract (we are union) we will all lose our jobs in the next two years. There has been no guarantee that we will have a job even if we DO vote the contract in- no matter what we say or what they give us. I'm not much of a "Union-Head". I have watched my hard work and work ethic get paid just as much as the screw-off that works across the aisle from me. I can't get promoted if I work harder and I get told by my "brotherhood" that if I work harder that I am making them look bad. The sale of Buell comes as a bit of a shock - but scuttlebut in the plant has been that H-D and Buell have been on the rocks for quite some time. Not long after I was hired I thought of the phrase: "This is the biggest back-yard operation I have ever seen!" A tiger can't change its stripes - at least not quickly. Will the stripe change happen fast enough to save the company? How about our jobs in York? God only knows.
Not that this is strictly on topic but you work 4 minutes from my house, drive what appears to be a rather nice GLH and we havent met? How did that work :lol: When I was a freshman(all of 5 years ago) we toured the York plant Id say every 6th person on the line was working their ass off everyone else seemed to simply be giving off body heat, their must be a more affective way to heat the shop
It makes me want to go into the business. Seriously. Half my staff are motorcycle racers and mechanics already. I see the exorbitant prices of Harleys. I see $7k Vespas and think "How could anyone not make money in this business"? Then I realize that I'm in California and 30 percent of my gross would probably go to lawyers and insurance companies right off the top....
I almost wish that the Chinese would buy the company and ship the assembly line and all the equipment over there so they can keep making them.
I always thought the Buell Blast would be a cool bike to run around town in.
Xceler8x wrote:
Why does this remind me so much of Saturn? GM created Saturn almost to be an anti-GM Division then starved it and killed it because it was exactly what they intended it to be.
No more Saturns or Buells, but plenty of Buicks and Electra Glides. American companies continue to live in the past while the rest of the world moves on.
kreb wrote: It seems that this is a microcosm of so much of corporate America. It's too hard, and takes too long to compete on quality and features, so they just give up and push style. By the time that the well runs dry, the CEO and his pals are kicking it on their golden parachute.
Respectfully nominate for "Say What"?
mel_horn wrote:kreb wrote: It seems that this is a microcosm of so much of corporate America. It's too hard, and takes too long to compete on quality and features, so they just give up and push style. By the time that the well runs dry, the CEO and his pals are kicking it on their golden parachute.Respectfully nominate for "Say What"?
Makes perfect sense to me. True, too.
My Buell was supposed to be my gateway drug into Harley-Davidson. But now all I want to do is buy a bigger, badder Buell. Way to go Harley-Davidson. 
confuZion3 wrote: My Buell was supposed to be my gateway drug into Harley-Davidson. But now all I want to do is buy a bigger, badder Buell. Way to go Harley-Davidson.
I think that is what the mothership was hoping for. You'd hop a Buell and then "grow up" into a Harley. It didn't really work that way for most of the guys I used to ride Buells with.
Which is one reason to crap can Buell. It wasn't feeding the customers into the bigger/more expensive bikes as hoped.
A bigger badder Buell....isn't that spelled Triumph?
Funny you should say that, my boss and his wife ride Buell somethings on the street. One of the stumpy little short wheelbase ones with a low CG, they look like serious fun. Bill's track bike? A Triumph.
The odds of them "growing up" into a Harley? Ha ha ha ha.
I never thought Buells were "entry level Harley's." People didn't go from Buells to big twins. Buells were always crotch rockets that didn't go WEEEEEEE. You know, crotch rockets that were socially acceptable. The entry level Harley has been the Sportster since the KH came out, with a slight variation for the 45" flathead. Not that some people don't find Sportsters to be more than an entry level, but they have always been the lowest cost Harley you could get. Something that you could park outside and not be ridiculed on. Well, much, anyway, depending on the crowd you were with. You could ride with the pack on a Sportster, for example, but if you had a Honduh, you had to meet the pack at the next bar. And when the Evo Sportster came out in '85, that was it. You could buy a real Harley for $3,999, ride it anywhere and it wouldn't break down. Then you could trade it in on a Big Twin and get $3,999 back on it.
Dr. Hess wrote: ...but if you had a Honduh, you had to meet the pack at the next bar...
Isn't that just a story people who couldn't keep up with the Honda would say to explain why they were so long in getting to the next bar? 
In reply to BoneYard_Racing:
We exchanged Emails a couple of times - I think. You have the old John Rudy Monza, right?
I really DO love that car - when you get tired of messing with the carb - I'll take it!
You probably never saw my old Omni - I sold it to a guy about 6 years ago - lived near Baltimore - I'm pretty sure all the good parts were stripped off of it and it was crushed.
I was a member of DV-SDAC for a few years. You had a Neon also, right?
4eyes wrote: A bigger badder Buell....isn't that spelled Triumph?
But those are English. English things break a lot. 
Dr. Hess wrote: I never thought Buells were "entry level Harley's." People didn't go from Buells to big twins. Buells were always crotch rockets that didn't go WEEEEEEE. You know, crotch rockets that were socially acceptable. The entry level Harley has been the Sportster since the KH came out, with a slight variation for the 45" flathead. Not that some people don't find Sportsters to be more than an entry level, but they have always been the lowest cost Harley you could get. Something that you could park outside and not be ridiculed on. Well, much, anyway, depending on the crowd you were with. You could ride with the pack on a Sportster, for example, but if you had a Honduh, you had to meet the pack at the next bar. And when the Evo Sportster came out in '85, that was it. You could buy a real Harley for $3,999, ride it anywhere and it wouldn't break down. Then you could trade it in on a Big Twin and get $3,999 back on it.
I'm not ready for a Harley Davidson. I will own one some day, but not just yet. I was a little peeved at H-D for killing this brand, but until I know why they did it, I'm not going to condemn then. Buell doesn't represent an entry-level Harley (that's the Sportster's job), but instead, it's a gateway into their company. Or, at least, it is supposed to be. You go to the HD dealer, buy the Buell, love the dealer experience (that's where things break down), and come back when you have more money and buy that Dynaglide that caught your eye when you were bringing your sport bike home.
Surprisingly, most of the Buells have a standard riding position. It's slightly more aggressive, but you aren't riding with your left hand on your knee after 25 seconds of agony like you are on the Japanese bikes. I ride hundreds of miles a day on the ol' Lightning on my weekend rides. My ass will be a little sore at the end (sometimes), but that's about it.
The funny thing about it, though, is that not that many people even know what it is.
seeker Ive had a fairly decent collection of neons and TDs 87 Omni was my first car mom bought it for me at the ripe old age of 13 wound up a 2.5TI with a turbo I found(seriously sitting in the cab of a truck at the junkyard) built almost entirely out of junkyard stuff on a lawn mowing budget. Went mid 13s on borrowed slicks with my friend/tool loaner/mechanical leadership driving. I sold it it was too rusty to use as a DD and I blew it up one too many times 85 Charger 2.2 H.O. most of an IMSA charger engine and lots of rust. 96 neon acr mag swap in the shed right now. 95 neon sport My beloved harold. 88 Tbird turbocoupe. 96 neon cpe. 95 neon sdn. 04 neon R/T Ms.Miley.
Yeah I have a problem 
I happen to like buell.. this is such a shame. Is HD killing them off.. or selling them off?
mad_machine wrote: I happen to like buell.. this is such a shame. Is HD killing them off.. or selling them off?
Killing them. Bye-bye Buell Motorcycles. For now...
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