I plan on getting the harddog hardcore m2 hardtop for the new NB track car. They show an image of using eye bolts to mount harnesses. Does this require special type of harness? Is this as safe as a harness bar? Is there another reason why you would want to use a harness bar?
Also I am guessing double diagonal is safer but more obstructing of the rear view? My last roll bar definitely interfered with the positioning of the seat but the diagonal was on the front not the back
I have a Harddog Hardcore M2 bar in my NB. They come with and without built in harness bar. I bought mine from a guy that never installed it in a car and mine doesn't have the built in harness bar. I did buy a Harddog harness bar that mounts to the standard seat belt mounts. It offsets back so doesn't interfere with seats. The one I bought doesn't have the tabs to use the kind of harness you mentioned that has eye bolts. Supposed wrap or loop the harness around the bar and fasten to itself which is a common way to install harnesses and as I understand it is the preferred way to install harnesses. Looks like you got one without the built in harness bar. Look up Harddog harness bar. Believe it is mandatory to use for harnesses on track.
While it's true that the DD blocks more area in the rearview mirror, IMHO it blocks less of the critical areas. A single diagonal is right across your field of view, whereas the DD basically blocks off the two corners that you're not really looking at anyway. This may vary somewhat with how tall you are and how far you like to lean back the seat.
I'm not sure of the sanctioning body legalities of using the harness tabs and eyebolts. I have an HDHCDD (non-HT), it came with tabs, but when I installed harnesses I also went with the bolt-in harness bar. I did it primarily for simplicity and because it meant I didn't have to worry about cutting more holes in the rear carpet.
I had planned on a harness bar and not heard about the eye bolts until I was looking at Hard Dogs website so thanks for clarifying
I've never heard of the eye-bolts being questioned.. I use them with my Schroth 6 points for the lower connections in the spec miata. I've always heard of the connector being called "snap in" as opposed to "bolt in".
They're normally used for the lap & crotch belts, but I've seen people use them for the shoulders as well depending on mounting availability. As always, check with your sanctioning body, but those are probably perfectly fine.
Check out the Hardware area on this page, down in the lower right.
I do not think an Eye bolt would ever be better than a tab or loop around a bar But make Darn Sure you use a Welded Eye bolt.
I'd give the harness tabs a shot. If they're a part of the structural, welded part of the bar (sure looks like it), you're good to go.
Other big advantage is it looks like you'd very easily be able to attain negative harness angles, which is CRITICAL. I had to wrap my harness so that it comes off the bottom of my harness bar and I'm right at zero degrees. Before, it was very easy to get positive angles which is bad for both retention of your torso but also would keep your HANS from functioning correctly. You do have a HANS right?
I don't have any of this yet waiting on december bonus money. These pics are straight from Hard Dog/Bethania Garage's site. I intend to use a Simpson Hybrid however.
Yeah I knew the pics were stock :)
I'd mock it up with the tabs. Again, if the harness angles are good, you're good. Why a hybrid over a standard HANS?
Do they no longer sell the roll bars with the welded in harness bar?
z31maniac said:Do they no longer sell the roll bars with the welded in harness bar?
The welded in bar doesn't work with a glass window for the HD. The blackbird bar does, but it sits pretty high up, which is my issue.
z31maniac said:Do they no longer sell the roll bars with the welded in harness bar?
No idea I am going with the hardtop model however.
Blaise said:Yeah I knew the pics were stock :)
I'd mock it up with the tabs. Again, if the harness angles are good, you're good. Why a hybrid over a standard HANS?
Because Hybrid also works with a 3pt belt when you are in the right seat of someone elses car etc
There are some sanctioning bodies that say that the two shoulder belts cannot share a mounting point, such as the single eyebolt found on the "M2" Hard Dog bars. Thus the existence of the separate bolt-in harness bar. Track days will likely never be a problem, but if you want to do SCCA time trial it may come up.
If you're running a hardtop and no soft top, you can use the M1 version of the bar that includes a harness bar.
My last bar which was not a harddog I hated how close it was to my head also I thought the M1 was for NA's and M2 was for NBs
Blaise said:z31maniac said:Do they no longer sell the roll bars with the welded in harness bar?
The welded in bar doesn't work with a glass window for the HD. The blackbird bar does, but it sits pretty high up, which is my issue.
And his bars are ridiculously expensive.
But I see the problem. I removed the soft top from my NA track rat, so it wasn't a concern of mine.
Jaynen said:My last bar which was not a harddog I hated how close it was to my head also I thought the M1 was for NA's and M2 was for NBs
That's the original fitment - but the difference is due to the glass window in the top. You can put an M2 bar in an NA no problem, and you can put an M1 bar in an NB IF it's running either an NA top (bolts in) or no top at all.
This is what I got back from them.
"We’ve always used snap type connectors and run both shoulder straps through the same snap end to form a “V” configuration. Nothing special but you can also used bolt-on’s both bolted to the tab instead of using and eyebolt.
Feel free to contact me if you have questions of concerns.
Happy Motoring,
Tom Beroth
Bethania Garage, Inc / Hard Dog Fabrication"
I did notice that on summit they had harness listed as bolt or wrap, but it looked like most were individual. Also while chumpcar says nothing about mounting points Nasa says each shoulder has to be separate and a separate mounting point
You can change the harness back and forth between clip and strap. That's not an issue. Make your bar decision on other factors, getting the harness to attach is no problem.
Well I think if I go with quite a few seats you need to use a brace which would need a bar or something to be on anyway
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