Hatchback sleeper using RS200 style drivetrain

Well, it's time again for me to (at least) think about a new crazy project and see if I can swing the cost.

I want to take some kind of hatchback and stuff an engine in the back. I'd like to utilize a custom rear subframe and just drop it into the existing car. (Drop the existing car onto it?) Perhaps I can utilize the rear bits from a Miata to get me close. I'd be aiming for RWD only.

I'm thinking of using a Subaru engine with a FWD transaxle for cost and availability options. Approximately 200-250 whp would be the goal and just a hair under 2300 pounds sounds about right.

I'd like it to be fairly sleeper.

My biggest concern is getting the front suspension and brakes sorted out.

I've considered a few but I keep coming back to the Dodge Omni.

It has to handle very well while being unassuming in looks, which means compromise will exist somewhere. I'm not okay with compromising it into failure, though.

Any thoughts? Crazy ones are preferred. This is GRM, after all.

Something like this:

5.3 FWD LSx derivative, and whatever hatchback you choose.

RS200 was mid engine all wheel drive right? You're just wanting RWD?

Edit: Never mind I added an extra 0.
Edit Again: Since this isn't really as relevant to the topic of this thread as I originally thought, I edited most of the photos out and just direct link to the album so there isn't a wall of stuff to scroll through. I kept the one with all the bits most folks want to see hotlinked.

http://s43.photobucket.com/user/daveyc999/library/4x4%20focus%20turbo?sort=3&page=1

If you're looking at an Omni (good choice, BTW) why not use an SRT4 or PT Cruiser Turbo drivetrain? You could use the front subframe from a donor car in the rear as a jumping off point. Heck you might even be able to keep it 4-doors!

Either way, you'll need to do a bunch of work to stiffen the frame and the front strut suspension isn't bad to deal with, other than the control arms tend to bind on the stock sway bars and increase the spring rate to near infinity. The 14:1 steering rack is quite nice and without the motor in the way you could move it slightly to alleviate any bumpsteer issues you might have.

With the rear suspension, you might look at a DeDion style rear suspension, but I've also been looking at some of those lightweight SUVs with their independent rear suspensions for inspiration. Figured most are already available with a pumpkin and drivelines on the AWD models and the long control arms should result in decent camber curves, etc. Hardest part would be getting the drivetrain of choice setup to drive those wheels.

Ok so you're looking for something like the original Ford Group B rally car? The RS1700T?

Take one part early mid 80s Escort, weld in cradle in back, insert F2T drivetrain or KL + Turbo. If you want 250whp n/a, i have a set of KL rods and pistons to sell you.

Yep, sorry for not specifying, I would be doing this RWD only.

AWD mopar minivans had DeDion rear axles, so that would be a possible place to start if you want to go that way.

Beyond that, if you get a car with a twist beam type rear suspension it might be possible to just swap the rear hubs for front ones and hang the engine in place.

So you want to stick an engine in the back of a small car that was FWD from the factory to make your own RWD hot hatch? Sounds like a lot of work. You must be crazy.

You'll be way ahead of the game if you start with a chassis that has a relatively easy way to add rear driven hubs from the start, allowing you to mostly reuse stock suspension. It's a lot easier to modify what is there than to start from scratch. Look for cars with independent rear suspension with room for an axle pass through in stock form. Then even if it was never made in AWD/RWD fashion you can install one.

Another "easy" way is using an entire rear transverse setup from a rear engine car. The '88 Fiero cradle only needs four attachment points and two strut tops, the rest is self contained...engine, trans, suspension, etc in one handy lump. (84-87 were the same, but the suspension sucked)

Bryce

Welcome back!

Why not a Focus?

There's a guy around here that has a small block chevy hidden in the bed of his truck under a tool box. Open the hood and there is a Toro leaf blower where the engine use to be. Another guy has a complete Toronado 455 and front drive tranny mounted in the rear of his S10. A third guy has a VR6 mounted in the back seat of his Golf. I think a Chevette would be the best sleeper of all.

For added inspiration look up the numerous eg hatch and del sol mid rearswap threads that are out there on the nets. Good reading and alot of them are good quality builds

Swank Force One wrote: Ok so you're looking for something like the original Ford Group B rally car? The RS1700T? Take one part early mid 80s Escort, weld in cradle in back, insert F2T drivetrain or KL + Turbo. If you want 250whp n/a, i have a set of KL rods and pistons to sell you.

If this is your idea, I have the perfect car to use for it. '86 EXP Sport Coupe with rotted out rear towers....

Heh, i'm not doing it. I know my limits, and that's WELL beyond them.

I may know someone who is working on it, though. But he's looking for more like 600hp.

I'd go a slightly different route, Zetec Focus and turn the engine 90° and make it front engine, rear wheel drive with either a XR4Ti rear axle or 4x108 stick axle from a similarly sized Ford car. Steal the Merkur's front suspension and Type 9 while I'm at it. Keep everything relative to the Zetec under the hood and make it look like it's stock... or maybe a turbo.

tr8todd wrote: There's a guy around here that has a small block chevy hidden in the bed of his truck under a tool box. Open the hood and there is a Toro leaf blower where the engine use to be. Another guy has a complete Toronado 455 and front drive tranny mounted in the rear of his S10. A third guy has a VR6 mounted in the back seat of his Golf. I think a Chevette would be the best sleeper of all.

Didn't Hot Rod magazine put a Toronado 455 in the back of a Chevette?

I love this idea, it's the top of my recuring automotive fantasy projects. I'd do Mid-engined RWD personally, but if you want 4WD using ScoobieDoo power then hit up Google. There are several Mk I and II Escorts in the UK using the Ford body shell dropped onto a complete Subaru floor pan, so you get the whole shooting match in one package that already works in a classic body of your choice.

I'm rushed for time right now, but later I have lots and lots of ideas.

I was looking at a Taurus SHO V8 drive train and contemplating sticking it in the back of some sort of small hatchback. I did find a cheap Omni and lots of Focuses.

RealMiniDriver wrote:

tr8todd wrote: There's a guy around here that has a small block chevy hidden in the bed of his truck under a tool box. Open the hood and there is a Toro leaf blower where the engine use to be. Another guy has a complete Toronado 455 and front drive tranny mounted in the rear of his S10. A third guy has a VR6 mounted in the back seat of his Golf. I think a Chevette would be the best sleeper of all.

Didn't Hot Rod magazine put a Toronado 455 in the back of a Chevette?

Back in about 1985 there was a Ford Fiesta featured in Hot Rod that had a Toronado drivetrain stuffed in the back of it. The car was orange and had a set of the 16" Corvette "salad shooters" for wheels.

In reply to theenico:

Yes! That's what it was! Thanks.

What part of the world ya in? Interested in a project?

Looks like fun! But I'm pretty far away.

SR20DE from a Sentra SE-R / 200sx in the back of a Metro? Then swap to the appropriate SR20DET at a later date.

I kind of wanted to use the boxer for weight distribution and just to have something totally bonkers, but the standard FWD layout in the back would probably be the easiest.

theenico wrote:

RealMiniDriver wrote:

tr8todd wrote: There's a guy around here that has a small block chevy hidden in the bed of his truck under a tool box. Open the hood and there is a Toro leaf blower where the engine use to be. Another guy has a complete Toronado 455 and front drive tranny mounted in the rear of his S10. A third guy has a VR6 mounted in the back seat of his Golf. I think a Chevette would be the best sleeper of all.

Didn't Hot Rod magazine put a Toronado 455 in the back of a Chevette?

Back in about 1985 there was a Ford Fiesta featured in Hot Rod that had a Toronado drivetrain stuffed in the back of it. The car was orange and had a set of the 16" Corvette "salad shooters" for wheels.

I remember that car. It was close to cheese wiz orange. It has a Toronado transaxle, but not the Old motor. The engine was a small block Chevy with early Corvette Rochester fuel injection on it. Don't remember if it was a real 'Vette fuelie motor or just the fuel injection system. I think it had the early cast aluminum Corvette valve covers on it too.

Edit:

These are the only photos I could find. It's on a Hungarian site. Don't know if this is the same car, or a recreation.

OMG. I want that Fiesta. That's the perfect body for this project.

http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/4227993777.html