Have Pick Ups Always Been this Expensive?

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

z31maniac said:

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Why is it that old Suburbans are always cheaper than trucks of the same vintage? With the seats folded down you can actually haul more crap in the Suburban than you can a shortbed pickup and still use it as a tow pig. 

Ever tried to run a one-man landscaping business out of a Suburban? :)

 

I didn't realize a Suburban was incapable of towing a small trailer? 

Life is easier if you don't need a trailer. Easier manouvering, less maintenance - and it can be the difference between requiring a CDL (or at least a DOT medical, DOT number and a logbook) and not.  There's a reason every pickup has a GVWR of 9,999 lbs.

You need a CDL to tow a Harbor Freight trailer with a Mustang?

All of the posts you quoted were talking about one-man landscaping shops. Putting a trailer - any trailer - on the back of a pickup or SUV rated for 9,999 lbs GVW and using it for commercial purposes - you need either a CDL or a DOT medical card, depending on the trailer rating. There are a LOT of rules around commercial driving and like racecar safety regs, they're written in blood.

Looks like a current Suburban has a GVWR of 7700, so you can put a trailer with a rating of less than 2300 lbs behind it before you get into those limits.

If you're trying to run a landscaping business with a harbor freight trailer behind a Mustang, you might as well just tie your lawnmower to the back of your bicycle with a rope and tool around the neighborhood :)

In reply to parker :

So your argument is based entirely on a biased sample (that my biased sample directly contradicts) and the mistaken assumption that using a truck beds is inherently damaging... Especially since most people I know that do haul damaging stuff have spray in bed liners that still look pristine.

How much time do you spend going around looking into other people's truck beds anyway. Seems kind creepy if you ask me.

Speaking of expensive trucks, I really want one of these...

https://www.velocityrestorations.com/velocity-signature-ford-f250/

Keith Tanner said:

There's a reason every pickup has a GVWR of 9,999 lbs.

That's not true though. My F350 GVWR is 11,500. Plenty of trucks are above 9,999

Keith Tanner said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

z31maniac said:

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Why is it that old Suburbans are always cheaper than trucks of the same vintage? With the seats folded down you can actually haul more crap in the Suburban than you can a shortbed pickup and still use it as a tow pig. 

Ever tried to run a one-man landscaping business out of a Suburban? :)

 

I didn't realize a Suburban was incapable of towing a small trailer? 

Life is easier if you don't need a trailer. Easier manouvering, less maintenance - and it can be the difference between requiring a CDL (or at least a DOT medical, DOT number and a logbook) and not.  There's a reason every pickup has a GVWR of 9,999 lbs.

You need a CDL to tow a Harbor Freight trailer with a Mustang?

All of the posts you quoted were talking about one-man landscaping shops. Putting a trailer - any trailer - on the back of a pickup or SUV rated for 9,999 lbs GVW and using it for commercial purposes - you need either a CDL or a DOT medical card, depending on the trailer rating. There are a LOT of rules around commercial driving and like racecar safety regs, they're written in blood.

If you're trying to run a landscaping business with a harbor freight trailer behind a Mustang, you might as well just tie your lawnmower to the back of your bicycle with a rope and tool around the neighborhood :)

I wasn't talking about guys driving big trucks with trailers. I was talking about guys putting all of their equipment in the back or on the roof rack of a beat up SUV or minivan or worse.

What about the guy towing a trailer with the beat up Camry? I'm sure he doesn't have a CDL. In fact, a lot of one man operations around here operate under the radar and only take cash. He probably doesn't have insurance or any kind of a business license either. These guys are common in Texas.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

And illegal. 

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

They are violating buisiness licenses, building codes, DOT regulations, the Tax Code, and likely immigration laws. 
 

Are you seriously taking the position that contractors don't need a truck and that a Camry will suffice?  Good grief. 

Steve_Jones said:

Keith Tanner said:

There's a reason every pickup has a GVWR of 9,999 lbs.

That's not true though. My F350 GVWR is 11,500. Plenty of trucks are above 9,999

Ah, you're right. Even the Dodge 3500 from 2010 has a GVWR of just over 10k. I guess it's the line for the smaller trucks.

Looks like the 2023 F250 actually has an optional "under 10k GVWR package". Can't get it with the diesel, though.

I know that if I was towing I15 through AZ with my rig, I'd have to buy a permit if I had a 3500 because of the higher GWVR, but my  2500 is under the line.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I am assuming legitimate businesses operating within the law. Trailers make that more difficult than just using a pickup truck. That was my point.

We actually have a problem in Dallas with people selling food out of pedalcarts in neighborhoods. Very illegal and almost impossible to regulate. The police here won't even come out if your car gets stolen, much less to chase somebody running an illegal food cart. These guys are also everywhere.

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I am assuming legitimate businesses operating within the law.

You don't live in Dallas.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I am assuming legitimate businesses operating within the law.

You don't live in Dallas.

I have no problem with that. I haven't been there since 1999.

But it does not make my other points invalid - adding a trailer makes manouvering more difficult and requires more overall maintenance and expense. So regardless of concern for safety or legality or other road users, a trailer behind a moped/Camry/Mustang/minivan/horse/whatever is not as good as truck.

And that's it, I'm done.

In reply to Driven5 :

In reply to parker :

So your argument is based entirely on a biased sample (that my biased sample directly contradicts) and the mistaken assumption that 'truck stuff' is inherently bed damaging... Especially since most people I know that do haul damaging stuff have spray in bed liners that still look pristine.

How much time do you spend going around looking into other people's truck beds anyway. Seems kind creepy if you ask me.

It's funny, my '04 Titan looks beat to hell. It's been crashed into 3 times (last time totaled and I bought it back) and 20 years in the CA sun have done a number on the paint. If it were a classic truck it would be worth more due to the patina. The factory spray in bed liner still looks great. The only time I've managed to damage it was when I loaded a bundle of 4" conduit with a forklift and caught the liner with the edge of a pipe. 

Keith Tanner said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I am assuming legitimate businesses operating within the law.

You don't live in Dallas.

I have no problem with that. I haven't been there since 1999.

But it does not make my other points invalid - adding a trailer makes manouvering more difficult and requires more overall maintenance. So regardless of concern for safety or legality or other road users, a trailer behind a moped/Camry/Mustang/minivan/horse/whatever is not as good as truck.

I never said it was. Somebody told me to try running a one man landscaping business without a truck. I responded saying that where I live there are guys doing that all over town with cheap, beat up vehicles including one guy who was using a Camry towing a trailer. I doubt if a Camry has a GVWR of 9,999 pounds or more and I am sure that guy doesn't have a CDL.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

I never said it was. Somebody told me to try running a one man landscaping business without a truck. I responded saying that where I live there are guys doing that all over town with cheap, beat up vehicles including one guy who was using a Camry towing a trailer. I doubt if a Camry has a GVWR of 9,999 pounds or more and I am sure that guy doesn't have a CDL.

The point wasn't that it was impossible, but that trucks are BETTER at this job than Suburbans, and that's why they cost more.  A high mile Suburban doesn't offer the same business opportunities that a high mile pickup does.

I'm not saying that trucks don't have a use.  I am saying that 90% of them are not used for that use.  I'm not saying that people cannot do what they want.  I'm talking about people like my step sister with her Wrangler that has never dipped one tire off pavement.  Her son who they bought a 4wd Tacoma for who will never take it off road, never tow or never haul.  These are suburbanites who want to project a "lifestyle image".  It's their money and they can do what they want.

To the OP's point, it's these lifestyle buyers who drive up the price of trucks for people who want/need trucks to do actual truck things.

You can use just about any vehicle for anything if you are willing to put up with the inconvenience, or worse risk damage and injury. I once rode laps around Thunderhill in an F350. I don't foresee a spec F350 class any time soon.

I own a Titan and an Expedition Max. They both hold a lot of stuff. The capacities are almost the same, not counting the unlimited height of the truck bed. The Expedition is more secure and flexible with people/cargo. The Titan is easier to load and unload, the go to for dirty items, and can handle odd shaped bulky items that won't fit inside the Expedition. The amount it can carry is also only limited to my imagination and amount of straps on hand (which is usually a lot.) I'd share pics, but don't want to become a meme. My favorite was the fully assembled 14' trampoline. 

In reply to SV reX :

This only matters if laws are applied uniformly which they are not.  

Wow. This thread.

I found the perfect size truck........

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I dunno, that bed is pretty oversized for modern truck standards.

parker said:

I'm not saying that trucks don't have a use.  I am saying that 90% of them are not used for that use.  I'm not saying that people cannot do what they want.  I'm talking about people like my step sister with her Wrangler that has never dipped one tire off pavement.  Her son who they bought a 4wd Tacoma for who will never take it off road, never tow or never haul.  These are suburbanites who want to project a "lifestyle image".  It's their money and they can do what they want.

To the OP's point, it's these lifestyle buyers who drive up the price of trucks for people who want/need trucks to do actual truck things.

Two points.  Let's not make assumptions about others? .  Or assume they are somehow less than us.  Because of what they choose to do.  or buy.  There is this thing called freedom.  
  Second. Let's also leave judgement to  those better suited to it then us.   
      Sorry for the lecture. 
      
 

Keith Tanner said:

Steve_Jones said:

Keith Tanner said:

There's a reason every pickup has a GVWR of 9,999 lbs.

That's not true though. My F350 GVWR is 11,500. Plenty of trucks are above 9,999

Ah, you're right. Even the Dodge 3500 from 2010 has a GVWR of just over 10k. I guess it's the line for the smaller trucks.

Looks like the 2023 F250 actually has an optional "over 10k GVWR package". Can't get it with the diesel, though.

I know that if I was towing I15 through AZ with my rig, I'd have to buy a permit if I had a 3500 because of the higher GWVR, but my  2500 is under the line.

I wrote that quickly, and it kind of comes off rude. Not meant that way, just pointing out it changed at some point. I'd assume around the time trucks got larger, which is a whole other discussion....

When are we going to get to truck bed height, rolling coal, and being blinded at night from behind by tall pickups? 

I own a Miata and an F-250. I wish somebody would have warned me before I bought TWO useless vehicles. ;)