In reply to Streetwiseguy :
That's one of the features of the 7.3. Variable oil pump, so it only makes high pressure when under heavy load.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
That's one of the features of the 7.3. Variable oil pump, so it only makes high pressure when under heavy load.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Streetwiseguy :
That's one of the features of the 7.3. Variable oil pump, so it only makes high pressure when under heavy load.
Or it makes a buzzing noise and low oil pressure, and I get to charge 13 hours of labour, which will probably eat all the money saved on fuel.
Have you noticed that we don't really fix engines anymore, we fix the stuff that is supposed to save a bit of gasoline? I have an RDX at the shop that seems to run on all six for about 2 seconds on every start, then shuts down the three DOD cylinders. Did some 5.3 DOD lifters tha other day. Changed a cam phaser or two in Volvos a couple of weeks ago...
It's interesting looking at this compared to the old 8.1 vortec.
8.1: 340 hp, 455 ft lbs of torque, available basically from idle to 4500 rpm
7.3: 440 hp, 475 ft lbs of torque, with most of the curve around 450 ft lbs from idle to 5000 rpm
I'm not sure I know enough about the 10 speed to draw real conclusions on that vs. the Allison behind the 8.1, but it is interesting to see how close the two are. The 7.3 has almost 1000 extra rpm to work with and seems to breathe better on the top end, hence the much bigger power number. Below that they seem to be comparable. Looks like the commercial 7.3 rating is around 350 horsepower, where the 8.1 only ever had commercial ratings.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
But it's not supposed to save money, it's supposed to use less fuel. Times a national fleet of trucks driving 4-5 hours a day average (SWAG), that is a lot of petroleum not getting burned.
One way to look at it is that it diverted money that would have gone to BP, to your pocket, and your suppliers', and so on.
In reply to gearheadE30 :
I dont know about the longevity of the 10 speeds, but the durability seems quite good. The drag guys are putting them through their paces, in the mustangs, camaros and F150s. They make a huge difference going from the 6 speed to the 10 in the mustangs, no matter the speed, they can always find the powerband.
The turbo guys are pushing huge power through them and they are holding up. Doesnt necessarily mean the longevity is there, but the durability seems to be.
In reply to Opti :
But trucks don't run for 10-12 seconds at WOT in the first few gears, they run at moderate load in higher gears, and those loads are different.
i remember the AOD was reasonably bulletproof for the engine power of the time at the dragstrip, but (and it's been absolutely forever since I've seen this, so memory hazy) there was a thrust bushing that really should have been a thrust bearing, and extended time under moderate load in overdrive, like say a van towing a travel trailer, would wreck the trans. The usual first clue that there was a problem would be coming to a turnpike gate and, once out of 4th gear, the trans was a box of neutrals.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Thats a pretty good point. I think a fast s550 would be crossing the traps in 6th. Now some of these guys are putting over a thousand hp through stock 10 speeds, so although it's definitely different types of loads, outside of a design flaw or inadequate cooling, it's probably going to end up being a good trans.
Has anyone made a really bad conventional slushbox recently?
I have this 7.3 and the 10R140 in an F350 Tremor. About 6k miles on it now, much of that grossing around 18k pounds.
If you doubt this drivetrain it is time to change your thinking. Coming from a well modified cummins 12 valve with around 400 horse, 1000torque, this thing will eat its lunch empty or towing.
Absolutely impressive uphill or down. Plus quiet, always in the right gear (300 rpm between gears), and sounds fantastic when you are hauling...stuff.
I don't know how Brian Wolfe got an overbuilt race engine through Ford's corporate system, but hats off to him. Well done sir! Same ring and valve materials as the turbo diesel, 6 bolt mains, moly coated pistons, massive roller cam, rear sump crank/chain driven oil pump with built in windage tray, piston oil cooling squirters, port injection, while being only an inchish longer/wider than a windsor.
Jcamper
I find it a little shocking how many people are poo pooing the 7.3
I saw the head design somewhere a few years back before it saw the assembly line and I could immediately see the significant similarities to a NASCAR cup engine head. Honestly it looks so close they could have copied it then modified as needed for a low cost production engine. Either way this engine is so over built and full of potential that it'll be a while before people fully realize it.
Last person I talked to about this engine informed me that they'd been following someone on youtube that has been playing with cams and other things on the 7.3 which has been yielding triple digit HP gains with a cam! Apparently just a cam swap on a stock F250 was worth something like 120HP.
Like many here I'm a strong supporter of keeping my old stuff maintained and going down the road. But if I was going to buy a brand new truck I would pick the 7.3 gas over the 6.7 Power Stroke despite the fact that I have a diesel now. Why? Because cost of ownership is going to be lower while still being a great tow vehicle. Gas is cheaper than diesel, oil changes are cheaper than a diesel, maintenance on the rest of truck is the same, fuel mileage is likely to be similar, and better cold weather reliability.
This just sounds better and better to me. Maybe they will come up with a way to put in my Econoline van!
In reply to asphalt_gundam :
Sounds like the way LS engines are - they have good port shapes and combustion efficiency, so they can make good power with tiny, emissions-friendly, dead-smooth cams. So when you put performance cams in them, watch out!
In reply to Jcamper :
I won’t be able to afford to take advantage of any new engines, but thanks for a first hand experience reports.
my current (03) diesel is not getting as good a mileage as it did for the original owner I bought it from, but addressing hat will be loads cheaper than a new truck!
Hows the real world mpg looking towing vs empty?
i was happy with the power of my wife’s eco boost while we had it, and we loved having a very quiet drivetrain as strong as the V8’s available; but disappointed that an engine with eco in the name got the same mileage as those very v8’s!
We just went from Michigan to Lowe's Speedway at Charlotte, then onto Road Atlanta before heading back to Michigan. Put about 2,500 miles on it pulling a fairly light 28' trailer with a Spec Miata inside.
This one is a '21 F350 with the 7.3L / 10-speed and a 4:30 gear. It get's about 8.5-9 mpg pulling that trailer (closer to 9) and this is better than the 6.2L / 6-speed combo we used to pull with. It took 5 months for this custom order to arrive.
We went with the gas because the truck sits most of the time and spends about 8,000 miles a year pulling that trailer. The diesel was about $14,000 more and we had nothing but trouble with diesel rigs in the past.
03Panther said:i was happy with the power of my wife’s eco boost while we had it, and we loved having a very quiet drivetrain as strong as the V8’s available; but disappointed that an engine with eco in the name got the same mileage as those very v8’s!
From driving a friend's F-150 with the first gen 3.5 EB, I found that yeah, if you actually use the power, it gets V8 mileage. It does get better if you keep your foot out of it though, especially at lower speeds on dirt roads, etc. where you're not in boost much and the smaller engine has less parasitic loss.
OHSCrifle said:Can you order an F150 with the 7.3?
No- just for Medium and Heavy duty trucks- the F150 is a light duty truck. You can get it in a Transit Van, if you want. Although most of the 7.3 that start in a "Transit" end up being motor homes.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:
No- just for Medium and Heavy duty trucks- the F150 is a light duty truck. You can get it in a Transit Van, if you want. Although most of the 7.3 that start in a "Transit" end up being motor homes.
Is this a secret hidden order combination? I don't see it as a build option on either full body Transit or Transit chassis-cab/cutaway. Is definitely available on E350/E450 Econoline but that is now only available as a commercial cutaway.
But, in 10 or 11 years, we'll be able to go to the U-Haul back lot and buy a 2021 E450 with the 7.3 and 100k miles for a few grand :D
In reply to newrider3 :
I'll have to check- I could have sworn in meetings that one of the engine choices for the Transit was the 7.3.
In reply to yupididit :
Not that I've heard of- everyone is happy with the 3.5l Turbo for it.
IMHO (and this is an opinion), a hybrid Raptor is more likely than a 7.3 Raptor.
One other factor for the Raptor is that is has get to SULEV30, and the 7.3 does not in MD and HD vehicles.
yupididit said:So no hints at a 7.3 Raptor?
That might require them to admit the 7.3 has performance potential and isn't just a big truck engine. Plus, as long as they've got the turned up 3.5 for the Ford GT, sharing it with the Raptor just makes sense. I did see an article mentioning that they're bringing out a V8 powered Raptor R, but it sounds like it'll probably have the GT350 flat crank V8 with a blower. So they're definitely keeping the performance engines a bit separated from the rest.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to yupididit :
Not that I've heard of- everyone is happy with the 3.5l Turbo for it.
IMHO (and this is an opinion), a hybrid Raptor is more likely than a 7.3 Raptor.
One other factor for the Raptor is that is has get to SULEV30, and the 7.3 does not in MD and HD vehicles.
I am pretty sure that the Raptor demographic would be violently opposed to a hybrid Raptor.
It's amusing in a way that makes me feel kinda sorry for how people can be that screwed up. There are a lot of Raptors on the road. I drive a lot of different cars. When I am driving a truck or some generic car, the Raptor drivers drive sanely. When I am driving a Prius or a Tesla, the Raptor drivers feel a need to drive with millimeter-fine following distances.
My assumption, is that they are buying Raptors as a social statement and not because they want a Raptor, and they assume that everybody else buys whatever they buy as a social statement, and they have problems with people who don't think the same as them.
I am sure that if Ford could engineer a Raptor that clubbed 3.4 baby seals per mile while spraying burning kerosene in the air, they'd sell millions.
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