Have we talked about Ram Promasters?

In reply to daytonaer :

Ah, that explains it. Yeah, I think the thread is pretty much about full size vans, not the city/connect car-sized ones.

I was a little puzzled when you mentioned it for ferrying kids, but figured a new van is probably nicer/safer than a lot of old stuff the forum drives...

I, too, assumed full size vans, when the towing capacity was brought up.

I am a big fan of the Transits, but my experience with them is not as high as with Promasters.

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

Yes I have.  Ours is kinda wierd.  It's based on a Workhorse (Chevrolet) E3500 chassis that Workhorse rated for 6000lb towing and something like 16,900lb GCWR.  When the RV was added the towing was reduced to 3500lbs, and the GCWR remained.   In actuality it has about 4300lb of excess capacity beyond the loaded camper available for towing.   

It doesn't care about having a trailer.  Id drives the same but MPG plummet from 9.1 to 9.0 MPG average.  

Yes most of the desire is just generally having a vehicle that gets more then 10 MPG in most situation.  The RV is cool and works fine for what I am towing but I'm considering if there is a better way to solve this problem.  

Thanks for all the feedback so far.  Sounds like it's a mixed bag.  I will probably eventually try to find one to drive as it sounds like *Most* of the issues are ergonomic and not necessarily reliability.  

In reply to nocones :

The six speed auto seems to last about 120-150k in cars and minivans.  My experience suggests about 60k in Promasters, although all of the ones I have worked with lived a life of heavy loads. One permanently had 1500lb of water in a tank in it, for example.

That one sticks in my mind because it couldn't be left outside during the winter, or the water might freeze.

My FIL has a Promaster for work.  It is does not get severely abused but it probably doesn't have the best service schedule.  It has survived pretty well, but I wouldn't recommend one (or any Chrysler/Fiat product, actually) to anyone.  As noted before, intake bolts rust very easily.  Have to remove the intake to replace coils and plugs, and that is an adventure as well.  Battery is in the floor between the seats.  

Driving-wise, it sucked.  Seat position sucks.  Transmission felt like it was constantly hunting for the right gear.  

Find an Econoline.  

This thread is relevant to my interests. Girlfriend was a camper van. Doesn't want to pay Sprinter prices but I don't want to pay my time in Ram maintenance. 

I've just been trying to convince her that a Class C E-450 chassis with a Godzilla is the way to go. 

Tom Suddard said:

FWIW, Transits don't all have the low towing capacity. Our SRW medium roof 250 was rated for like 8000, but that required the 3.5 eco boost and those are pretty rare. It towed great when it wasn't at the dealer, though. 

More seriously than my last response... How often *was* it at the dealer? Major? Minor? Permanent fix or TFI Part II, this time it's still just the same part and not actually a fix!

If the Promasters have 60k mi transmissions, the Sprinters have well-documented expensiveness, and the Transits are also hot garbage...

I did find an Ecoboost 3.5 Transit 250 within theoretical budget and not too far over 100k miles, semi-local, five minutes into Craigslisting. So not hen's teeth, but if all the new vans are time bombs, I'll take the cheap one. Or find a way to E-series.

There are a whole lot of reasons to avoid a Promaster besides the transmission.

I think Fiat has concentrated their parts supply so that everything is only available as a $1400 assembly.  It cuts down on the number of items they stock, but it will come as shock when, say, you need to replace that nice expensive heated memory power side mirror assembly because it incorporates the ambient temp sender that the engine computer uses, causing a fault code and you need to fix it before you can renew the registration.

Replacing the trans every few years is fairly low on the expenses to expect.  To put things in perspective, I'd rather have a Sprinter.  And I don't like Diesels, Mercedes, or rust, and the Sprinter is all three.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Hrm; that's not a lot of ambiguity. Curious to hear what Tom's issue with the Transit was; sounds like you have a more favorable impression of them generally... Do you have a gut reaction to the question of living with an aging E-series vs a Transit? I think the high roof is going to convince me, but... I have fear.

A lot of the jerks on the van forums would sway you to getting the nicest Econoline or Express you can find, for the simple reason of parts availabilty and ease of service.   Any corner mom and pop shop can do any work on an Econoline - they have been the same basic vehicle since 1992, even sharing a fair bit of sheetmetal - last major refresh was in 2008.  Any chassis stuff, engine stuff, electrical stuff is extremely simple, well documented, and well understood.  None of the other vans can claim that.  

Meant to chime in on this yesterday. If you have/get one, do NOT crash. We've had 3 through the body shop. Each one takes about 3-6 months to aquire the parts. One totalled because of rental. Current one parts ordered beginning of june, just received the last body part, but the p/s parts that were smashed we are waiting on until late ocotober and november for. No aftermarket parts available for what we are missing. 

93gsxturbo said:

A lot of the jerks on the van forums would sway you to getting the nicest Econoline or Express you can find, for the simple reason of parts availabilty and ease of service.   Any corner mom and pop shop can do any work on an Econoline - they have been the same basic vehicle since 1992, even sharing a fair bit of sheetmetal - last major refresh was in 2008.  Any chassis stuff, engine stuff, electrical stuff is extremely simple, well documented, and well understood.  None of the other vans can claim that.  

A lot of the people on the FB Group "Overlanding for the Poors" highly tout the Express and Econoline for those exact same reasons. There's some decent aftermarket support for both of those vehciles as well for overlanding. 

There was just an incident listed on there the other day where a guy lost his transmission in his Expressvan in Nowhere, Idaho. The local mom/pop shop was able to replace it for him. He still had high trans temp issues but he was back on the road at least. 

Jesse Ransom said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Hrm; that's not a lot of ambiguity. Curious to hear what Tom's issue with the Transit was; sounds like you have a more favorable impression of them generally... Do you have a gut reaction to the question of living with an aging E-series vs a Transit? I think the high roof is going to convince me, but... I have fear.

This was six years ago so the finer details escape me, but I remember some real work under warranty and multiple trips--at one point they replaced the entire rear axle, but that took multiple visits pleading with them "please make the differential stop howling before it leaves us stranded." It had a few minor problems like CELs and broken trim pieces, too, but nothing crazy. I'd buy one again, but it was not the reliable-as-a-rock workhorse that our older E-250 was.

An acquaintance of mine got familiar with these when the dealership he worked with started buying/selling cargo vans (they couldn't get regular inventory). He said the Promaster was the best driving of the bunch.  Nissan also makes a van that's truck-based....if towing is your end goal.   Last time I checked even bare cargo vans were shockingly expensive when new....even the dinosaur chevy express  (don't forget about those either).  

If the V6 is the same as in the caravan, it's an impressive lump from a power/economy perspective.  I rented a Pacifica/Voyager and averaged over 30 mpg at interstate speeds over +1200 miles (75-80 mph).  It may not last forever...but when new I was impressed.

I've considered vanlife/rv'ing for a while now, and of the big vans, I read there are more issues with the Promasters than others.  Winnebago used them (maybe still does) for their class B campers, and driving uphill in low traction situations was reported to be pretty sketchy, presumably due to the FWD layout and a bunch of weight in the back.  The Sprinters are just flat out expensive and unreliable.  What I've heard about the Transit is it isn't much more reliable than a Sprinter (early ones maybe less reliable), but when it breaks it isn't as expensive to repair. 
 

I don't know enough about the Nissan NVs to have much of an opinion, other than they look goofy, but I'd probably pick one over the Mercedes or Dodge.  Express and E-series would be the safe choice, but don't have anywhere near as much space.

In reply to eastsideTim :

I'm genuinely ashamed of how much I don't want a Nissan because of the looks. The Promaster is interestingly, eccentrically weird looking (like the Fiat it is). The Transit and Sprinter are handsome. The NV is just boringly ungainly. The proportions are awful.

 This thread made me revisit the question of high roof Econolines with tall doors, and they are indeed hen's teeth. Modern vans make the classic van shape look utterly stupid. Even the Nissan?

I may have to revisit trying to convince my wife that a nicely finished small box van can look every bit as curb-appeal-friendly as an RV.

It's funny that the recommendation is a Chevy Express..  which is what my RV is, which has had $2900 worth of random electrical work (not related to the upfit part of the RV) and it only had 27k miles on it.   

It did just finish a 1000 mile pull to Lime Rock Park.  9.3 MPG @ 67 mph.  Mine is a 2008 with the 4 speed and the 6.0l.  Hills can be a challenge.  

Seems like just pouring gas in what I have may be the best avenue for now.  

In reply to nocones :

Part of that problem is it;s 15 years old and has 27k miles. Less than 2k a year is hard on E36 M3.