Mike said:In reply to wearymicrobe :
That actually looks pretty good. Wanting for fenders, but still, good.
For nearly $40k? That's getting into Ariel Atom territory... if we're talking about niche use toys. And you could build a ground up Exocet for a lot less. Either would provide considerably more performance.
Beyond the "fairness" of its inability to run on track due to stability concerns, I would also have some questions about crashworthiness.
AFAIK it does not need to meet automobile safety standards so getting wrapped up in an accident with a car could be very nasty.
Hell, they don't even have adequate roll protection:
In reply to pointofdeparture :
Yep. Looks totally stable and track worthy to me... Such unfairness banning these from motorsports!
Seriously though, I hope that driver walked away without too serious of injuries. I wonder if that was on the stock tires or stickier ones?... Unsurprisingly, it would seem that hanging the driver's butt mostly outside the stability triangle and totally uncounterbalanced is not a great recipe for quick left-into-right transitions.
Edit: Further research shows the driver was thankfully uninjured, it occurred at the IIHS proving grounds, and was performed by a third party company demonstrating the value of stability control on three-wheeled vehicles. Mission accomplished... That's what happens when even a totally stock (namely tires) Slingshot is driven aggressively with the stability control turned off.
i like these better
Driven5 said:In reply to pointofdeparture :
Yep. That's what happens when even a totally stock (namely tires) Slingshot is driven aggressively with the stability control turned off.
Assuming the stock tires are somewhat long-lasting with rain grooves, there would be only moderate grip. If anything, such tires "allow" the car to spin out more easily instead of them driving out from under the car. I'd expect real sticky tires to make roll overs all that much easier.
Several times I've considered designing a three-wheeler but there's several problems:
1. At least in the US, it'll always be odd-looking so won't ever make you popular, if you care.
2. Driving the rear wheel isn't the best idea for several reason. The right way, the best way - the ugly way - is to use a FWD drivetrain, which makes styling nearly impossible. Putting as much weight at the front (the wide base of the "stability triangle") greatly reduces the chance of a rollover and improves traction and acceleration.
3. Poor traction
Driving only the rear wheel makes for awesome burnouts, but only serves to illustrate the lack of traction. There was a three-wheeler designed and built by a guy in... Norway maybe. He did a great job and could do impressive burnouts, but eventually reality sank in because the car was slow; he ended up redesigning the car to have two rear wheels...
Personally, I think they are ridiculous and worthless.
Is it a motorcycle? No.
Is it a convertible? No.
Is it a sports car? No.
But if you like them, fine.
If you have one, I'd go for a ride with you. Just because I don't want one doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun. Once.
kb58 said:
2. Driving the rear wheel isn't the best idea for several reason. The right way, the best way - the ugly way - is to use a FWD drivetrain, which makes styling nearly impossible. Putting as much weight at the front (the wide base of the "stability triangle") greatly reduces the chance of a rollover and improves traction and acceleration.
While not the prettiest of Trikes (it's worse with the 4 cylinder VW engine, stick with the guzzi) the Black Jack Zero is front wheel drive
I'll go against the grain. I love them. Far out of my price range and I wouldn't have a lot of opportunity to use it in my current life. But in a different circumstance, I'd be all over it.
mad_machine said:kb58 said:2. Driving the rear wheel isn't the best idea for several reason. The right way, the best way - the ugly way - is to use a FWD drivetrain, which makes styling nearly impossible. Putting as much weight at the front (the wide base of the "stability triangle") greatly reduces the chance of a rollover and improves traction and acceleration.
While not the prettiest of Trikes (it's worse with the 4 cylinder VW engine, stick with the guzzi) the Black Jack Zero is front wheel drive
I agree that works - because it's air-cooled and they wisely made the engine a feature. I was speaking more about using a FWD automobile engine, which does all the right things except that they're too tall to integrate into the body.
^ And, if you are going to go that route, the additional weight/complexity of 4 wheels vs. 3 is very low yet has a huge payoff in roll resistance.
I agree that works - because it's air-cooled and they wisely made the engine a feature. I was speaking more about using a FWD automobile engine, which does all the right things except that they're too tall to integrate into the body.
Jay Leno's Garage recently featured the Vanderhall Venice, a front wheel drive 3 wheeler with a car drivetrain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X71spAvmw4
The Venice looks a lot better than their last attempt, which, well, you decide...
kb58 said:mad_machine said:kb58 said:2. Driving the rear wheel isn't the best idea for several reason. The right way, the best way - the ugly way - is to use a FWD drivetrain, which makes styling nearly impossible. Putting as much weight at the front (the wide base of the "stability triangle") greatly reduces the chance of a rollover and improves traction and acceleration.
While not the prettiest of Trikes (it's worse with the 4 cylinder VW engine, stick with the guzzi) the Black Jack Zero is front wheel drive
I agree that works - because it's air-cooled and they wisely made the engine a feature. I was speaking more about using a FWD automobile engine, which does all the right things except that they're too tall to integrate into the body.
I wonder if you could use a Subaru flat 4 with the drive shafts angled "forwards" from an Audi style FWD transaxle
stuart in mn said:I agree that works - because it's air-cooled and they wisely made the engine a feature. I was speaking more about using a FWD automobile engine, which does all the right things except that they're too tall to integrate into the body.
Jay Leno's Garage recently featured the Vanderhall Venice, a front wheel drive 3 wheeler with a car drivetrain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X71spAvmw4
Just listening to the trans go up/down/up/down in that video makes me angry.
They look weird to me, dont quite get it.
A cowoker's friend rolled his, not exactly sure other than he was "showing off"
I saw a few of them yesterday while in west-central PA yesterday pre-running an event route. Almost got to "play" with them in the MINI, but they turned off onto a road I wasn't taking.
They are big. Much bigger than you think they should be.
I noticed the 4-wheel converted one has a Florida plate. It seems you can register damn near anything down there. In reality, once it's been titled, any changes made to it will probably only be a problem when it comes time to sell or get it inspected, if required.
The only trike I've ever been interested in was the Aptera.
They are not something I want, but I'm glad they exist. They seem to have a devoted following. We passed a group of about 9 of them in Ferndale Michigan on Saturday on a meet up. they look fun and probably more comfortable, due to being wider, than a 7 or similar vehicle. It may be a surprise to many here, but the average sports car owner doesn't give a flying fig about SCCA or any other autocross either.
They have no advantages in performance or handling to any even-numbered wheeled vehicles whatsoever and I think they are silly looking and poorly implemented. Do not want. They are slightly superior to one wheeled vehicles... probably... but you will still look cooler on a uni-cycle or in a wheelbarrow.
I see people riding around in them and they are smiling though so I suppose if you don't care what I think it's possible to have a good time :)
I think the slingshot is hideous. Someone watched a Michael Bay transformers film and said "yeah! That's the look!"
That said I like the concept and I don't understand why they enrage so many folks, car enthusiasts or not. A 30+ thousand dollar custom Harley bagger or chopper can roll by without a second glance but a slingshot makes people start shouting like an angry preacher no matter their background. Impractical! stupid! expensive toy! Yeah well so is that tri-five Chevy convertible that you oohed and ahhed over a few minutes ago.
Is it meant for ten tenths track use? Nope, and that it ok. Does it use motorcycle regulations to skirt auto safety rules? Yes, and I'm okay with that too.
I have never seen anyone step out of one frowning. Pacific hwy 101 has dozens of them carving the twisty roads every sunny weekend. The owners all enjoy the hell out of them.
I WILL build a replica Morgan someday.
In reply to Jumper K. Balls :
Now THOSE are cool!
They sure are! But they are also more expensive than the Polaris, slower, worse handling and probably even more dangerous. Yet everybody gives them a pass while they rage about the Slingshot.
I just don't get the disconnect. How is one hated and one loved? It must be the Transformers vs Archaic styling.
In reply to Jumper K. Balls :
I hate them both equally for ME.
But if these silly contraptions make people smile or get out and play with vehicles it's all good. They don't need to know I'm not laughing with them but at them.
It's still funny for ME.
1) The slingshot is marketed as something that can be pushed at 10/10ths on the track. Hell, go here and look at the first image. A center cluster screen with data acquisition showing "Race Data". Or go here
It's time to push more boundaries. And go to the edge.
Slingshot® doesn't just feel like it was made for the racetrack–It was born for it. So get in. Put on your driving gloves. And prepare for one intense ride.
Its stupid. When you have something this inherently unstable and its marketed like its the perfect track day solution, it is bound to attract lots of criticism from car guys and other people who understand physics.
2) I think the Morgan is kinda neat, but still dumb. At least it kinda understands what it is though.
They're still ridiculous and I don't want one, but damn! they look cool!
I would walk across the parking lot to look at one of these, the Polaris, nah.
My interest in the Slingshot was running hot in early 2015, when I had a chance to swing by a dealer in NJ after hunting down a transmission for the RX-8. Once I laid eyes on an actual 'Shot and asked pointed questions of the sales drone, my interest faded quite a bit. As others have mentioned so far, the thing is HUGE, and also as mentioned, a certain movie maven, with a penchant for huge explosions in lieu of dialog, must have had influence in at least the front end design. This pic from my road trip said it all:
On the left, a Slingshot in Decepticon mode. On the right, my 2007 Chevy Trailblazer in road-weary state.
Since there was no way in Hades I'd pass the SCCA / NASA / whoever 'broomstick test' while seated in the Polaris, it ruled out any attempt at track time. The sheer width of it startled me, the rough eyeball measure gave it about 8" more track width than my 'Blazer. Add to it a purchase price $6500 in excess of said used 'Blazer at the time, that nailed the lid shut. :-(
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