Heartland Park Topeka - may be demolished

llysgennad said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Sorry to offend. I've given the facts as to the valuation and current situation. I pay my taxes, why shouldn't he?

Because his business brings value and dollars into the local economy. You are just a drain on the system. This is why businesses get tax breaks to relocate. 

Toyman! said:

llysgennad said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Sorry to offend. I've given the facts as to the valuation and current situation. I pay my taxes, why shouldn't he?

Because his business brings value and dollars into the local economy. You are just a drain on the system. This is why businesses get tax breaks to relocate. 

 

Wow. And I'm the rude one?

llysgennad said:

Toyman! said:

llysgennad said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Sorry to offend. I've given the facts as to the valuation and current situation. I pay my taxes, why shouldn't he?

Because his business brings value and dollars into the local economy. You are just a drain on the system. This is why businesses get tax breaks to relocate. 

 

Wow. And I'm the rude one?

But I'm just stating the facts of the situation.

llysgennad said:

Toyman! said:

llysgennad said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Sorry to offend. I've given the facts as to the valuation and current situation. I pay my taxes, why shouldn't he?

Because his business brings value and dollars into the local economy. You are just a drain on the system. This is why businesses get tax breaks to relocate. 

 

Wow. And I'm the rude one?

There are just under 2k hotel rooms in Topeka. If the major events that the track draws in sells out 75%of those rooms at an average of $100 (low) per night for 3 nights, That's $30k in sales tax generated for the area in that weekend. Not including food, rentals or any other shopping at all. Figure for those 1500 rooms an additional $30/room/day generates another $9k in sales tax revenue. 

Can you honestly tell me you're giving the community $30k 10 times a year? 

I agree with you, having the tracks open is much better than tearing it down. But there are only 2 major events there each year. One (NHRA Nationals) is now canceled by him, and the other (Country Stampede) is looking to move because of him. All the other events (autocross, drifting, motocross, track days) are local or small. Not much boon to the local tax revenue.

But he's arguing the real estate taxes are too high, even though he agreed to the $7 million valuation. I think that is a realistic value. The land is probably half that by itself. He refuses to follow the appeals process. The county cannot, by law, do anything other than what they are doing. His penalties are now huge. That is his own doing.

I have paid at least $30k in taxes in the time frame he has been fighting, likely much more. My family's business adds to the local economy, and still pays its taxes. I'm not sure how I became the enemy here.

llysgennad said:

I'm not sure how I became the enemy here.

Seems like no thread is safe. 

The rallycross national championship is at heartland park again this year, possibly the last event before they shut down. The entry fee is $100+ more than it has been in the past (maybe more, I remember it being about $100-140 entry for the weekend, this year is $270) because of the super high cost the venue is charging to use one of their fields. 

Amazing how you missed this part of that article...

"Chris Payne, managing member of Shelby, filed the lawsuit in 2019. It claimed the County Appraiser’s Office had illegally and improperly conducted a valuation of the property. They claimed the county persuaded a third party to change the property’s valuation from $5.5 million to $10.4 million. Claims included negligence, fraud, conspiracy and breach of contract."

And followed a few paragraphs later by this...

"The Appeals Court did find some merit to Shelby’s complaints about not being told about an initial appraisal that was lower than the $10.4 million. However, the Appeals Court said it ultimately came back to the question of damages. Since Shelby later reached a settlement for a $7.5 million value, it could now show evidence of damages from the $10.4 million figure."

Heartland Park was my first track and was my home track for a long time.  This is back when we used the dragstrip for the front straight.  I thought it had a fun fun and challenging rhythm.  The south end was more individual corners while the north end the corners blended together so a driver had to be able to handle both.  Braking for the old turn 1 was awesome, a huge braking zone with my exhaust right up against the wall for good sounds.  I know many didn't like it but I will always remember it very fondly.

racerfink said:

Amazing how you missed this part of that article...

"Chris Payne, managing member of Shelby, filed the lawsuit in 2019. It claimed the County Appraiser’s Office had illegally and improperly conducted a valuation of the property. They claimed the county persuaded a third party to change the property’s valuation from $5.5 million to $10.4 million. Claims included negligence, fraud, conspiracy and breach of contract."

And yet he failed to prove any of that in court, twice.

Edit to your edit: this $7.5M valuation was done in 2017. It's a mess, and I wish there was an amicable solution

In reply to llysgennad :

The instant you started mocking members. That's how. 

In reply to bobzilla :

I have not yet begun to mock...

I'd rather this didn't get locked, but whatever.

I'm off, to be a "drain on the system" so I can pay my taxes and buy cool E36 M3.

From the nearby property values $7.5M looks totally reasonable and $10.4M isn't ridiculous. It looks like the owner got a pretty good deal on the land in the first place which is making the increased land taxes seem all the more painful. He also hasn't stated it plainly, but appears to want a special deal on these taxes and is holding the facility hostage at bulldozerpoint to get it, which is a massive dick move. He's basically telling the government that if he can't have the track with a special tax deal, then nobody can have the track at all...there's nothing else to be gained by threatening to demolish the facility. He could try selling it, maybe someone else who isn't a dick could turn it around, or if the tax situation means the track really is a hole in the ground that eats money and can't turn a profit, somebody would buy it for more than the taxes he owes and bulldoze it to turn it into a McMansion development or something rather than as an act of spite that carries additional expense.

Chances are, the county already has someone waiting for that land.  Him bulldozing it so they have to re-do water and sewer seems like a pretty good move on his part.

racerfink said:

Chances are, the county already has someone waiting for that land.  Him bulldozing it so they have to re-do water and sewer seems like a pretty good move

Unless the person waiting for the land wants the track as-is, it's probably going to cost him more to sabotage the place than it will cost them to set up the water and sewer system for whatever they're doing. If someone wants to build a 'burb or a mall there's going to be little to no overlap between the system layouts, and tearing up the track itself could save the next owner a lot of effort.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

It's so close to the airport you're not going to make it a subdivision or macmansion-ville. It would pretty much have to be industrial/commercial. The Kansas air guard has KC135's stationed there and those things are loud as berkeley on take off. 

 Ladies and gentlemen,

I was born and raised in Topeka. I was there when it opened tracking my 1980 Volkswagen scirocco I used all my high school job money to modify. Met Willy T Ribbs and his father at the track. My dad and I , now my son, all were raised at this track. So it's not about the money and "alleged" miss management for me. Its personal! This really pisses me off. And what now for road racing in the Kansas City market. Plus this track brought millions of dollars to Topeka. All because some idiots with in the board in Topeka can't work it out? C'mon man. Find another buyer or ruin my hometown. It's easy for one to blame Shelby when you have no ties to the city...and yes ...again ..I'm pissed....work..it.. out Topeka, or lose the money. Was excited to see my grandson enjoy road racing where his grandpa and great grandpa did....now...gone because no one can see the big picture.... just bs ..... Michael Anderson...and yes I put my name.

In reply to llysgennad :

Read my post...

Since when do people get to have feedback on their property taxes?  There is a process and while that's going on you don't get to just refuse to pay anything.  Sorry, but the track owner here looks to be more than equally to blame for putting himself in this situation

Not only that, he *did* get to have feedback. He appealed and both parties agreed to a lower valuation...and then he still didn't pay. Then took none of the opportunities the city gave to "work it out", never provided any proof the tax burden was hurting the business, then decided to close and sell. The anger and disappointment is totally justified, but there's only one party to aim it at and it's not the city of Topeka.

This is a perfect example of how people react when it's something they care about. 

Politics in a nutshell.

If you can't afford property taxes on the current facility, how are you going to raise capital for a new facility?

Michael Anderson.....I agree and will miss my "Home" track, but Ozarks International is only a 2.5 hour drive, so doable. And I hear there's a new track down near Adrian - even closer - that's supposed to be open soon for events.

Just saying.......... there are alternatives.

In reply to dps214 :

Completely disagree...it's all Topeka in this issue completely unequivocally Topeka!

In reply to MiniDave :

Thanks mini Dave ..but still...can't just put the car in Dad's garage and drive 10 min. To the track if anything breaks..lol