Help from the Hive: spacious wagon that is enjoyable to drive

Greetings from the other side of the planet I've been more off than on lately since I haven't had much vehicle-related going on, but it's time for me to request the collective wisdom of the GRM hive

Basically, I want to replace my wife's 2004 Trailblazer. We are having our first kid in a few weeks (!!!!!, maybe I should have led with that), and in addition to how miserable the driving experience is in that thing and its awful gas mileage, I now have the safety of our soon-to-be-pneumatically-aspirating daughter to think about. The '04 Trailblazer didn't exactly have the greatest crash-test ratings, nor is it rollover-resistant. And did I mention the handling/steering/braking/etc is AWFUL. My '05 STi is far better crash-rating wise, is far less likely to be involved in a wreck to begin with due to better control, but is also not baby-friendly with it's current setup due to stiff ride and excessive noise. I'd like to be able to get something lined up within the next few weeks, so we can drive home from the hospital with it. And so I can have the Trailblazer crushed. Or lit on fire. Or pushed off a cliff. Or crushed then lit on fire then pushed off a cliff.

So, at the top of my mental list is an E-class wagon from the mid-oughties (W211). The gearhead in me wants an E55 wagon, but something like a regular E350 is probably adeqaute. The Subaru Outback (turbo or 3.6, '04 or newer) is neck-and-neck with the later Volvo V70R ('05 to '07) for second-place on the list. I'm aiming for about $15k or less; I'll have room to spend more if I find something outstanding but would prefer not to if possible. I am more than open to suggestion to other alternatives, provided they meet the criteria. Are the E60 5-series wagons any good? Audi S6 wagon? I loved my old 740 turbo wagon, but even the safest cars from the late 80's are sub-par by today's standards. At least for SWMBO/baby duty, if it were just for me I'd get another 745t in a heartbeat.

Criteria:

• Safety. Not just top-notch crash-test ratings, but good handling/braking characteristics for the ability to actively avoid perilous road conditions/circumstances. Which leads nicely into point #2...

• Must be enjoyable to drive. I may have mentioned that the misery of driving the Trailblazer is factor #2 in my decision It doesn't have to compete with an M5 or handle like a Cayman, I'm not doing track days with it after all But it has to be something I won't dread just thinking about taking it out of the driveway, and something that would be enjoyable on an easy cruise through the Appalachians on vacation. Hence my leaning towards the E55 wagon, a boosted Outback, or the V70R. Just sporty enough to keep me happy, but still comfy enough to please SWMBO... and baby.

• Automatic or paddle-shift transmission. This is in direct contradiction with the previous bullet point, but SWMBO can't drive stick, and this will be her "daily" driver

• Reasonably reliable. This is thus far the only major ding to the E55/regular-E so far, at least without any in-depth model-specific research. I've worked on German cars before and I know how German parts prices are. I'm not maintenance-shy, but I'd prefer not to worry about the next big repair, get nickel-dimed-and-quartered to death on fixes, or have to spend extra for an aftermarket warranty (unless I get, say, an E55 wagon with higher miles for a great price, in which case I'd spring for the warranty).

• Decent wagon space. We also have three dogs (small, medium, and extra-medium). Most frequent driving mode will likely be rear seats split-folded down. Need enough space to hold the dogs and light luggage for road trips. Willing to overlook smallish rear area if the wagon can accept a luggage roof-box. Small rear space is why the CTS and S4 wagons haven't made my short-list, at least from external eyeballing and checking the stats on Edmunds.com

• Reasonable fuel mileage. But since the Trailblazer is in the mid-to-low-teens, my STi with a big turbo and big injectors already beats it on fuel economy, so it'll be difficult NOT to improve on this by default!

Recommendations, caveats, cars I neglected? Fire away! And thanks in advance.

Buick Roadmaster with an LS swap?

I hope, I really do, that someone chimes in with some mystical forgotten car that fits your budget, reliability, space and fun to drive factors, as I'm in the same boat....except that I've already got a mouth breather appendage.

As far as I know, there are very few wagons. Most German, most VAG products and thus unreliable. Or you can get a Chrysler wagon, and have horrible interior quality. CTSV wagon would be my easy button....but it's way, way out of budget. Subaru is about the only option I'd consider, though not that exciting or good looking. Volvo I don't know much about, and have never really looked at with any serious thought.

E39

/Thread

I think some of the outbacks are under the takata airbag recall but no replacements available anytime soon situation. Not sure the years on that... But worth looking into in a family hauler situation.

Other than that not much to add. Mazda 6 wagon, Jaguar xtype wagon, Audi a4 a3, BMW 5 & 3 series wagons are all other options?

Mazda 6 isnt' very common and often overlooked but could be just the ticket

Five years ago I bought a 2006 Outback XT Limited automatic to replace a 1999 Tacoma V6 4X4. SWMBO insisted that the baby would never ride in the Tacoma.

The Outback has enough power, a nice interior, handles well enough, and has split seats. I like the wagon and with the Limited package the leather interior and stereo are nice enough. The boys like the huuuge sunroof. Boost is best in the mountains. The car has been reliable although I've only put about 32K miles on it. We've used the roof rack for bikes and a bike trailer.

However, with a rear-facing baby seat on the passenger side the front seat must be almost all the way forward. There's no way, at 5'9", the rear-facing seat could fit behind me. My wife is 5'4" and she barely fits in the front passenger seat and I think that is only because she is OK being scrunched. So buy your baby car seat and test fit it every car you're considering. Also take along your stroller and fit that in the back. I will guess that you will be surprised how much room the car seat and a stroller will consume.

Also, my wife and I agree the seats are not comfortable on long trips. We're not sure why; they seem like nice seats. Maybe the padding has deteriorated. But in August we did a 2,700 mile road trip and we were both more than a little uncomfortable.

Mileage is poor at ~18-19 MPG. I'm hoping that goes up a little after I fix an infrequent CEL that I think is a lazy fuel pressure regulator. While the handling is good it is a little harsh over road imperfections (original bushings, and tires are about eight years old and will be replaced in a month). The car is also tippy, to the point that I just replaced all four struts. And it's just as tippy as it was. I think that's a result of the 8.7 inches of ground clearance.

We just moved to Ohio and I'm excited to utilize the car's winter features this year: AWD plus heated seats, mirrors and windshield.

I bought the five-speed automatic so SWMBO can drive it without anxiety. I deeply and daily regret not buying a manual transmission. But the auto does have a manumatic mode with shift buttons on the steering wheel. So at least I don't spend much time fighting the tranny about gear selection. I found that I get better mileage around town leaving it in drive. I've had conflicting reports on the durability of the automatics.

I bought my wife a 2009 Hyundai Sonata GLS (2.5 liter I-4 with a five-speed auto) and I was very surprised how well it meets our needs. Most surprising, the trunk swallows about as much as the Outback, and the Sonata has >more< room for the car seats! It has just enough power, handles decent, is more comfortable, and gets 50% better mileage. I'm not saying you should buy a Sonata but realize that a wagon doesn't necessarily get you more room.

Cliff Notes: buy your car seat and stroller first and test-fit them in anything you're considering buying. I always looked down on how we Americans "need" huge SUVs but now I realize it's a result of car seats, strollers, and the things "necessary" for having a baby.

Dang, multiple replies in a matter of minutes! You guys rock. Isn't it like 9am over there?

Ranger50 wrote: Buick Roadmaster with an LS swap?

Fails the first criterium (safety) but I like the cut of your jib

volvoclearinghouse wrote:

Same issue as the proposed LS-Roadmaster

TGMF wrote: I hope, I really do, that someone chimes in with some mystical forgotten car that fits your budget, reliability, space and fun to drive factors, as I'm in the same boat....except that I've already got a mouth breather appendage. As far as I know, there are very few wagons. Most German, most VAG products and thus unreliable. Or you can get a Chrysler wagon, and have horrible interior quality. CTSV wagon would be my easy button....but it's way, way out of budget. Subaru is about the only option I'd consider, though not that exciting or good looking. Volvo I don't know much about, and have never really looked at with any serious thought.

Yeah, it's tough/impossible to find one that "checks ALL the boxes", but I'm really just looking for which has the best combination of the desired attributes, sort of a best-area in a spider graph type of thing. I'd be willing to buy the Doug-DeMuro-style aftermarket warranty and/or break the budget for something like an E55 wagon, though

Huckleberry wrote: E39 /Thread

That. Looks. EXCELLENT. Only thing that sticks out at the moment is that the E39 was 1999-2003... my biggest issue is how its safety features compare with something developed in the mid-00s. Safety stuff made pretty big gains from the mid-90s to the mid-00s. But I can't believe I forgot that those came to the US in wagon form. I am intrigued.

ihayes wrote: I think some of the outbacks are under the takata airbag recall but no replacements available anytime soon situation. Not sure the years on that... But worth looking into in a family hauler situation. Other than that not much to add. Mazda 6 wagon, Jaguar xtype wagon, Audi a4 a3, BMW 5 & 3 series wagons are all other options?

My STi just had its passenger airbag replaced (about a year after I first received the notice!), so maybe things are moving along now. The A4/A3/3-series are all smaller than I'd like, as is the CTS wagon (at least from pictures and stats). I hate FWD so I didn't think about the 6, but I might be able to deal with it since it'd be the wife's car primarily.

DWNSHFT said: So buy your baby car seat and test fit it every car you're considering. Also take along your stroller and fit that in the back. I will guess that you will be surprised how much room the car seat and a stroller will consume. [...]but realize that a wagon doesn't necessarily get you more room.

Good point, I'll have to remember to bring the baby-carrying stuff! Also, primary reason for the wagon is the ability to bring the dogs with us, otherwise I'd be all over some sedans right now. I am trying to avoid the SUV thing, I don't like them or crossovers. Usually worse fuel mileage and handling than an equivalent wagon or hatch with the same interior space.

Polestar?

Also pick a compact baby seat. I've heard good things about the Combi Cocorro.

My recommendations would be Volvo wagon, which will pretty much hit all the boxes, especially an R. Or if you can live with sliding doors, the Mazda5 will do everything in your list. It's not exotic, but for a wagonoid, it's fun to drive (it's just a Mazda3 on steroids), dead nuts reliable, safe in a crash, and practical as all get out, especially if you have just one kid.

V50 Volvo with the T5 and a call to vivaperformance and IPD.

captdownshift wrote: V50 Volvo with the T5 and a call to vivaperformance and IPD.

Exactly where I am now. I'm Driving. 2001 V70 T5 with IPD intercooler piping, blow off valve, 3" exhaust from the turbo back, lowered a bit. It's a BLAST and looks great!
Of course, Volvo knows a thing or two about safety and are nowhere as maintenance-intensive as the Germans.

I had fun chasing a polestar wagon around a 2 mile road course. He had to let up so I could pass him on the straights. I don't thing he was pushing as hard in the corners as I was. He seriously walked away from me between corners.

Good luck finding one.

I can't actually recommend it due to my promise to never again recommend a VAG product (screw you VWOA), but if you are willing to deal with the questionable engineering/reliability the B6 Passat wagon is pretty amazeballs for dailying with occational spirited use. 280+ hp VR6, AWD, all the airbags and a VERY overbuilt chassis, all the modern electronic nannies, etc.

Autocrossing mine in G-street I was able to raw time a Factory 5 Cobra and on a trip through Deals Gap it was all I could ask with the engine set of full attack mode.

That said, the timing chain tensioner went away at 106K miles leading to an engine rebuild (yay for aftermarket warrentees!). It starts right up and drives well every time, just be aware that it's German and will go through things like suspension bushings more frequently than about anything on the road. The B6 generation is the last of the Passats actually built in Germany, the new ones (no wagon anyway) are built in North America and aren't nearly the same to drive. Also, while the Jetta wagon looks similar, the Passat chassis is a LOT bigger inside and out. Plenty of room for car seats and stuff.

Second the Mazda5 - MPG isn't amazing, but not poor either compared to other suggestions so far.

Totally agree on the baby seat/stroller combo taking up way more space than I expected. I bought a Xterra thinking it will have plenty of space for the baby seat and still be a reasonably cool dad car. But it turns out, it requires sliding the passenger seat forward significantly, and my 5'4 wife is a bit cramped riding there. My wife kept telling me they were huge, and I believed her, yet when the time came I was still amazed at how huge baby seats are.After they graduate out of the baby seat they begin to sit slightly more upright and thus the seat is less all consuming. Strollers can be found smaller, without worrying about the "less safe"argument with the wife.........but the big ones have a lot of room to store crap and ride smoother, and will mount your car seat right on top, so no waking baby up transfering from stroller to car or vice versa.

The newest SAAB 9-5 Aero wagon you can find.

Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: The newest SAAB 9-5 Aero wagon you can find.

Or a Turbo-X or even a 9-7X if you think the Trailblazer is good size-wise.

I am in a similar spot, with a 2 month old (only 2 dogs though). Except I require a manual. It's a tough find. I've resigned myself to waiting for CTS-V Wagons to get affordable-ish or modifying a Golf Sportwagen, which I'd rather avoid.
The wife likes roadmasters, I may just have to wait until I get a workshop again and tackle a T56 swap in one...

Mazda5 for sure checks your boxes. I also liked the Mazda 6 wagon I test drove a few years ago and I actually preferred the auto to the manual trans. They are more rare than the sedans, but not unobtanium for sure. Also, hear me out on this one, Odyssey. I wasn't a believer until this past weekend, but my buddy bought his grandfather's, beefed it up with some sway bars and eibachs. We hooned about on the twisties of western Maryland and not one of us came away without a smile. It's not gonna out handle an m5, but it can be made just fun enough to take all the boring stigma out of a mini van.

This.

Rusted_Busted_Spit wrote: The newest SAAB 9-5 Aero wagon you can find.

Unfortunately probably not within the budget but certainly a dream car for me...

chknhwk wrote: Unfortunately probably not within the budget but certainly a dream car for me...

He wanted reliable. The only thing you can rely on with that is that it'll reliably have something wrong with it.

Drive a Mazda 5 auto before you consider one. My brother had one with a slushbox and hated it. It was slow, uncommunicative and mpg wasn't great either. I've heard good things about the manuals, but drive an auto to see if you like it first.

All modern vehicles are going to be pretty darn safe---- as long as you have your phones disconnected while driving.

I'd vote Volvo, or BMW 5-series wagon. If you need bigger, a Mazda CX-9 is a pretty entertaining machine--- and plenty big for baby duty.