Help: I Still Don't Understand 911 Prices

I was online over the weekend and just when I thought I finally understood 911 pricing I spotted a couple of more ads and auctions results that sent me back to the starting line again.

I understand that the first generation on 911T and the latest 911T cost the same.

I sort of comprehend why G-body 911s have risen in the last couple of years.  Naturally I think they are overpriced but I get they were the bedroom wall poster car. They are my favorite too.

What's really perplexed me is how a cars one year apart or the same model year can be 20-40K apart.

Can someone give me some sort of rational explanation as to why one some are 30K and other seemingly the same cars are 80K?

In the case of an auction, two people really wanted that particular car. In the case of a sale ad...people can ask whatever price they want, that doesn't mean the car is actually worth that much. Porsche people are basically split down the middle between "reasonable price, sell it in the next month or two" and "I'll sit on it for two years if I have to to get the price I want".

Other variables that can impact 911 prices: color, modifications, condition, body style. Also, just one year can make a difference when talking SC vs. Carrera, Carrera vs. 964, etc. Which two cars were you comparing? 

It's really easy to take even a base Cayman and add $40k+ in options. The last time I played around with the configurator for the new Cayman S. I think the Chrono package (which gives a faster sport mode and a few things for the DCT) and the top of the line stereo. Just those two alone is like $13k in options. 

David S. Wallens said:

Other variables that can impact 911 prices: color, modifications, condition, body style. Also, just one year can make a difference when talking SC vs. Carrera, Carrera vs. 964, etc. Which two cars were you comparing? 

I think it could have been the last year of 996 vs first year of 997. 

At this point my brain has glazed over trying to figure it all out.

I still hold out hope of buying a 911 someday but the prices are such that I 've just given up on them.

That tracks that a 997 would cost more than a 996. (I assumed we were talking air-cooled cars and, well, you know what happens then.)

For a relative value buy on an air-cooled 911, how about a 2.7L Targa? 

One year apart certainly can be the .1 and .2 models of a body style and significant variation in expected issues like the IMS bearing, etc. However 911 prices generally don't make a lot of sense to me.

David S. Wallens said:

For a relative value buy on an air-cooled 911, how about a 2.7L Targa? 

That's kind of where my brain is now. While I think the coupes are better looking I like the Targa cars in that they are a bit odd and I seem to gravitate towards oddball cars or versions of them.  (example being Ferrari Mondials are one of my favorite Ferraris but only in hard top, convertible Mondials are for posers). LOL

As for the 2.7; the issues with those are well know and easily fixed / updated.

There are a lot of badly modified 80s 911s that  had  poorly done slant nose conversions with big flares  , running boards massive wing etc , 

If you can find one of these and put it back stock or backdate it to a "73 RS look"  you can have a neat car ....

But then you get into the mechanical  things ,   which are costly  but there is a good aftermarket for parts.

Tom1200 said:

I still hold out hope of buying a 911 someday but the prices are such that I 've just given up on them.

A lot of cars are like that...as the years go by and you make more money, their value keeps going up and up so they're always just out of reach.

There are a lot of 911 generations with engine issues, some are specific to a given model (like the 991 GT3) that cause some pretty wild price changes. Also moving from a generation to the next (993 to 996 for example) or even within a generation (991.2 is worth a lot more than 991.1). There's also color, options, and body style to think about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

stuart in mn said:

Tom1200 said:

I still hold out hope of buying a 911 someday but the prices are such that I 've just given up on them.

A lot of cars are like that...as the years go by and you make more money, their value keeps going up and up so they're always just out of reach.

By virtue of instructing at PCA events I've driven every generation of 911. The 2.0 liter 911T is still my favorite.

I am in this weird place right now; I can afford (just) that 911 but I can't justify it in my mind. I'm cheap; my cap for anything other than a house is 40K. 

That leaves me in a place where the 911 in that budget isn't the one I really want.

You have to track the market. Go to Porsche events as a spectator when you can and get to know your local 911 scene.   I know first hand that a lot of cars change hands with out ever hitting the market.  Especially cars that need some work. Put feelers out letting people know you are interested.  The other big thing is be ready to act fast if you want the good deal. You have to balance between getting a full ppi versus purchasing something at a price that if the worst happens you are still ok.   Lastly I have found that in the 911 world cars that need work can be had cheep. Most people with money don't want to build/ fix / restore a car. They want to purchase  a running good car and as such those command a real premium.  
 

Another way to get a car is go through a broker. They know the cars in the area. They will put out the word in there network of clients and other brokers and usually they know the car. Yes they will be making a bit on the sale but you are paying them to get you a good car at a fair price. Probibly more important is they will tell you what cars not to purchas.   I have used a broker on several recent purchases and I can highly recommend it.  A good one becomes your car purchasing advisor.   It is a service that has real value especially when you step up to real money cars. 
 

The other thing is patience.  Be willing to walk away if your offer is not excepted. Be gracious kind and appreciative but don't get in to a situation where you are bidding against your self. But like I said previously when the deal presents its self be ready to act fast. 
 

It is funny that this thread came up now as I had been chasing a 72 911T long nose for a while. A car I happened on by accident early last summer.  The opportunity to own it came together really fast last Saterday. I now own it.  

dean1484 said:

I now own it.  

berkeley yeah! Congrats!

The 911 has gone the way of the 356, an investment rather than a fun to drive car.  The 914 is on that track too.  If/when you have a weak moment on the decision go price a rebuild on a 3.0 sc motor, they are insane.  I also can't rationalize driving something that costs that much the way they can be driven.  

There are people out there who have no problem spending 50-100K for an air cooled 911 though so the market is unlikely to change.

Tom1200 said:

stuart in mn said:

Tom1200 said:

I still hold out hope of buying a 911 someday but the prices are such that I 've just given up on them.

A lot of cars are like that...as the years go by and you make more money, their value keeps going up and up so they're always just out of reach.

By virtue of instructing at PCA events I've driven every generation of 911. The 2.0 liter 911T is still my favorite.

I am in this weird place right now; I can afford (just) that 911 but I can't justify it in my mind. I'm cheap; my cap for anything other than a house is 40K. 

That leaves me in a place where the 911 in that budget isn't the one I really want.

 

 

FWIW, not calling a 911 an investment (no, never), but you do stand good odds of doing well financially. Maybe that thinking helps? :)

Depends what you want.  $40k will easily buy any number of water cooled 911's, but not really touch an air cooled.  You're in Colorado, with me, right?  If so, contact Joe Rothman, he's a car broker that deals in a lot of Porsches and can help you find something.

911s are their own thing.  If you want a 911, then you want a 911.  The reason that the prices are high is because they are fairly reliable* and a good shelter for your 'investment.'  Not from the standpoint of appreciation, but as a counter to depreciation that is inherent to a lot of new cars.  If you're a saavy buyer you can buy a 911, take good care of it, and still wind up owning the car for almost free.  

The saavy buyer part is important, especially in the shallow end of the 911 price range.  They can have a lot of big-money problems vs the buy-in price. 

*Reliable compared to a lot of other exotic cars.

David S. Wallens said:

FWIW, not calling a 911 an investment (no, never), but you do stand good odds of doing well financially. Maybe that thinking helps? :)

While it's convenient to have that liquidity in a car it doesn't help me get past the prices.

Mostly because I'd never want to sell the car; so much like my house have tripled in the 25 years the appreciation is simply a number.

docwyte said:

Depends what you want.  $40k will easily buy any number of water cooled 911's, but not really touch an air cooled.  You're in Colorado, with me, right?  If so, contact Joe Rothman, he's a car broker that deals in a lot of Porsches and can help you find something.

I'm in Vegas. 

The issue with the water cooled cars is I'm not that enamored with them. They're actually much better cars but I enjoy driving the older ones more.

I like 356s even more than 911s but those prices are insane to me.

tomtomgt356 (Tommy) said:

Is the 1:1 "I know what I have!" seller as much of a problem in the 911 world as it is with corvettes? I always feel like more than half the sellers are seriously out of touch with the market, or are selling because their wife made them and have it listed for an outrageous price.

More so if anything, as most of them don't actually need the money and are happy sitting on the car for a year or more waiting for the right deep pocketed idiot to come along wanting exactly that car.

2.7 targa? I'm listening. This one started out as a 2.7, 24 years ago when I bought it. Didn't stay that way for long cause nobody wanted 2.7 targas and I started making it mine.