Help me decide on my next daily driver, which will become a track car in around a year.

johndej said:

If you want cheap RWD HP, I know you've been burned once, but would you consider a stang again? Same for cramit.

My wife brought this up. Mine, unfortunately, was a lemon. Most are much more reliable. It's a pretty decent base to start with though. Actually, while talking about this the entire time we were at the gym, I think we kinda narrowed it down to an S197 Mustang or a Porsche 996. Mustang will cost much less and be less of a headache, but the Porsche is my dream car (well, my dream car is a 997, but those are a bit out of my price range, especially to track). Mustang would be a lot of fun to build up and make fast (except for the header install, ugh) and I think I'd really enjoy it. But every time I see a 911 my head immediately turns and I have to call out to my wife "Hey look, Porsche!"

Who knows. There are a lot of good cars out there that would be a ton of fun autocrossing and some track days. Good thing is, I have time!

If you really want a 944, then get the nicest S2 coupe you can afford.  It pays to wait when looking for used Porsches.  I'm currently hunting for a 996 C4 in good shape at a fair price.  I've owned a 944, a 944 turbo, a 944 S2, a Boxster S and a 996 Carrera 2.  The one I regret selling most are the S2 and the 996.  The others I'm not sad they are gone. 

I also own an E82 128i 6-speed that is a riot to drive, and can be made competitive in STX, SCCA Tuner 4 and NASA TT5, depending on the route you want to take. It's like an E90, but lighter and with a shorter wheelbase. 
 

Beyond that, I agree with what's been said about the Toyobaru twins. They're very close to a modern day 944. The new ones even have some umph to them. 
 

As a wild card, have you considered a Nissan 350Z or 370Z? They seem to meet most of your requirements and can be made fun on track. 

In reply to infinitenexus :

Like you I want a Porsche BUT after years of racing Japanese cars I'm keenly aware that I may not be able to stomach the P-car tax. You are not the only one who's thrifty.

So since Boxsters are part of the conversation I looked up S2000s. Holy gosh those are worth some money.

Is a BMW Z4 worth talking about here?

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

If you really want a 944, then get the nicest S2 coupe you can afford.  It pays to wait when looking for used Porsches.  I'm currently hunting for a 996 C4 in good shape at a fair price.  I've owned a 944, a 944 turbo, a 944 S2, a Boxster S and a 996 Carrera 2.  The one I regret selling most are the S2 and the 996.  The others I'm not sad they are gone. 

This is just my humble opinion, I wouldn't buy a low volume, desirable car to turn into a track car. There were almost 1500 less 944 S2's imported to the US than the E30 M3. 

For example, why cut up an M3 where they only imported ~5000 into a track vs 10s of thounds of normal E30s into a track car. So many things you can do to make it better than an E30 M3. 

But again, that's just my own opinion. 

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

I have not! To be honest I don't really know a ton about modern Z cars, but they do seem to check most of the boxes. I've read they're a bit heavy, though. 

In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :

It's certainly worth talking about; the other day I spoke with a gentleman that got a chance to drive a Z4 in anger and he said it was kind of like BMW's attempt at a Miata. He said it was a blast to drive. 

After sleeping on it, I think an S197 Mustang GT or a Porsche 996 are going to be my top choices, although they're very different. The Mustang would get heavily modified, while the Porsche would get a few tasteful mods. Very different paths, but I'd probably be happy with both. 

infinitenexus said:

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

I have not! To be honest I don't really know a ton about modern Z cars, but they do seem to check most of the boxes. I've read they're a bit heavy, though. 

Some of the early 350Z's weigh in at under 3200 lbs, while some of the later cars bloated up to over 3400 lbs. While they're not featherweights, they're lighter than most E90's, with considerably more power (between 287hp to 350hp depending on year and trim) and higher reliability ratings. 
 

I'm not much of a Nissan guy, but I've driven countless cars over the years and the later model Nismo 370Z was one of the most fun cars I've ever pitched around a canyon road. I probably wouldn't recommend the Nismo due to the price hike- they're far more expensive than the base cars and still don't come with a real LSD (viscous only), so I would buy an earlier car and mod it to my liking. But they're definitely worth looking into. 

Gen 6 Camaro V6

High reving 3.6L V6 making 335hp, and tons of aftermarket support in the form of 1LE's and Cadillac ATS-V's.  All the bracing and brake stuff will bolt right on.  Comes with a proper Limited Slip, and a Tremec 6spd manual that also resides in the GT-350, so it will handle power.

My worry is that a DD 944 isn't going to be all that reliable for you.  They're old cars now and even if they've been kept up well, can create some eye watering bills.  They're also not all that easy to work on and some parts are NLA.  the hatch glass delaminates from the frame and causes leaks, squeaks and rattles.  No shop wants to try and fix it.  Then oil pan gaskets, torque tubes, clutches, timing belts, all are common to deal with now and huge PITA.  Since you're in an apartment you won't really be able to handle those jobs and they're expensive to have a shop fix. 

If it were me, I'd find a really nice E36 M3 and call it a day.  Far better performance than the 944, far easier to maintain.

In reply to docwyte :

I had forgotten about the E36 M3, good call. If he's looking for something newer, the previously mentioned E82 128i or maybe an E46 330i ZHP are also good places to look. 

infinitenexus said:

In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :

After sleeping on it, I think an S197 Mustang GT or a Porsche 996 are going to be my top choices, although they're very different. The Mustang would get heavily modified, while the Porsche would get a few tasteful mods. Very different paths, but I'd probably be happy with both. 

while the 996 isn't as old as the 944, the newest car is still almost 20 years old and as such; modern cars they are not.  as a daily driver i think you might be a bit disappointed.  Also as track cars they are very expensive to fix when things break.  

on the flip side, Mustangs seem to be attracted to curbs and pedastrians when leaving cars and coffee, so if car shows are your thing maybe avoid mustangs :)

Another vote for the 944 here. I take it to work, and track it every chance I get. It does have bluetooth and AC. Honestly, I probably do the bare minimum in upkeep and care at this point and the thing just keeps rockin on... Done the timing belts/torque tube bearings/clutch in my garage without much issue. Maintenance and upgrades are well documented, not particularly difficult (even if there seems to be an excessive number of steps) and spares are still easy to find. Its small, light, responsive, easy to place on track, and a lot of fun. It keeps up with most modern stuff at the track without much issue so you wont be a moving chicane. I say get one now, before the only ones left are all project cars or expensive garage art. 

Id kill to test out a BRZ/FRS with the SSC kit and the wheel/tire package. They seem like SUPER fun yet very capable cars with a tested set of modifications that can be driven daily.

https://www.tirerack.com/images/pdf/SCCA_Solo_Spec_Coupe_SSC_Rules_0820.pdf

The car fits the bill for RWD coupe and easy on the wallet. Maybe toss in a tune, header and exhaust for the extra oomph youre looking for?

If you want an engine that can be easily upgraded and you are going s197 avoid the 3V. They don't make power well NA and your left with mostly just boost options, then you get into a relatively weak engine.

I enjoyed my C5. Hate the trans setup though and diffs like to explode. C6 has same problem. Doing a clutch is a huge pita. By now the guibos in the torque tube are questionable on all of them because of age and it's also not a fun job. Top of the engine stuff is easier than other LS powered cars and bottom of the engine stuff is considerably worse. Harmonic balancer (which fails often) if WAY bigger a job than it needs to be (drop subframe and completely remove rack and pinion).

In the same vein have you considered 4th gen fbodies? They fit plenty of tire 315s on all 4 corners or a little bigger in back. They've seen success in autoX (see sam strano). The market seems to have bottomed a few years ago and they are on the rise. They have the LS, good chassis development and parts availability, and a conventional trans setup (for servicability). The only major weak link is the 10 bolt, which isn't as big a deal for "turn"-y track use, and has multiple aftermarket bolt in solutions. Embrace your inner redneck and they are fun on the street

I really think the Toyoburu is your Huckleberry. I've driven a few 944s, and while they were a blast on track, these are, as Doc said, older cars. I think vs a Toyoburu, you get less reliability, and I'm not convinced the driving experience is any better. If it's a car you've always wanted, I can't argue against nostalgia (this is how I've ended up with 2 E36 M3s), but I stand by what I said above.

Speaking of E36 M3s, I am sort of split on recommending them to someone in your position. They are fantastic cars, great driver development tools, and for your autocrossing/track needs, I think they'd work quite well. It's just the "not breaking every week" part that falls short. Based on my time with these cars, it very much was an experience of constantly addressing small things (to me this wasn't a big deal - there is a great knowledge base around these cars. But it is a constant battle). I enjoyed it at the time, but it sounds like that isn't what you want.

Finally, good on you for realizing that the AWD E90 isn't the way to go. They are great cars in many respects, but not for what you're looking to do. And I've never driven a C5, but that could be a great option too....

In summary: Toyoburu>E36 M3/128i. All the best in your search

So, I got to drive a 911 GT3 on a track today, which definitely nudged me in the Porsche direction. I also wisened up and started looking outside of a 100 mile radius in Cleveland. Everything rusts out here and everything is all wheel drive with an automatic. This is not a good place for enthusiast cars.

I just checked FB marketplace in Florida and I can easily get a Porsche 996 with full maintenance records, probably with the factory aero kit or GT3 front/rear spoilers for less than $30K. 

An S197 Mustang with the Coyote motor would be a ton of fun and I think that would probably be the *smartest* idea, as it's a decent platform with a great motor. After cooling, brake, and suspension upgrades (and seats, lets be honest) it's a potent track car. With 305s on all 4 corners it would be a monster at autoX and track days—the Vorshlag thread proved that. He set track records every month with his 2011.

However, I know deep down that if I got a Mustang and built it up, every time I saw a 911 I would still feel that tug in my heart and deep down wish I had gone that route. Seeing that good examples go for such great prices down in Florida, I think my best bet is to save my money, then do a fly and drive. I might as well get what I truly want. The 911 wouldn't be built into a full track car; it would get probably shocks, GT3 front control arms, wheels/tires, and an exhaust. I'd leave it at that and just enjoy my dream car. 

infinitenexus said:

So, I got to drive a 911 GT3 on a track today, which definitely nudged me in the Porsche direction. I also wisened up and started looking outside of a 100 mile radius in Cleveland. Everything rusts out here and everything is all wheel drive with an automatic. This is not a good place for enthusiast cars.

I just checked FB marketplace in Florida and I can easily get a Porsche 996 with full maintenance records, probably with the factory aero kit or GT3 front/rear spoilers for less than $30K. 

An S197 Mustang with the Coyote motor would be a ton of fun and I think that would probably be the *smartest* idea, as it's a decent platform with a great motor. After cooling, brake, and suspension upgrades (and seats, lets be honest) it's a potent track car. With 305s on all 4 corners it would be a monster at autoX and track days—the Vorshlag thread proved that. He set track records every month with his 2011.

However, I know deep down that if I got a Mustang and built it up, every time I saw a 911 I would still feel that tug in my heart and deep down wish I had gone that route. Seeing that good examples go for such great prices down in Florida, I think my best bet is to save my money, then do a fly and drive. I might as well get what I truly want. The 911 wouldn't be built into a full track car; it would get probably shocks, GT3 front control arms, wheels/tires, and an exhaust. I'd leave it at that and just enjoy my dream car. 

I am sorry, but no way would I buy an IMS engined based Porsche for anything more than a couple track days a year. Seen too many end life with AOS/IMS/bore scoring engine failures. I would buy the cheapest non-IMS based Cayman if I had to get into the Porsche crest badly. This is one of those things you can spend $30K on and then another 15 - 20k over the next year or two, or spend 50k up front to buy the better car from the start I am afraid.   

If not a Miata, then get a Vette. 

I know its not a representative showing, but 6 of my friends locally have had catastrophic engine failure on track with their 996/986 cars on track.  I'm not sure I'd track one at all, even if the IMS has been replaced.