Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 11:30 a.m.
1993 F150, 4.9L, automatic, very slight mods on the head. Shop had to bore 0.030" over, so they are 4.030" bore
So, I am putting together my engine again. Last time I did this I ROYALLY berkeleyed it up. I cannot afford the monetary, mental, or emotional cost of doing so again.
I decided that I'm gonna ask you guys for help.
There will be plenty of pictures and possibly dumb questions. You ready? Let's go!
Measuring ring gap- I think this is what really got me last time, so I'm gonna drill down on it.
Here's the setup for #1 cylinder. Top ring is 0.021", #2 is 0.022", oil are 0.028" and 0.030"
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 11:33 a.m.
BTW - I'm literally gonna stop at each step and take pics and post them to make sure everything is done right. If the ring gap procedure is good I'll continue and get a measurement for all and post it, but after that I'm gonna stop.
I'm dead serious when I say I can't afford to not get this right.
Step one. Good job using the piston to square the ring. And very good job selecting the Sealed Power coated-skirt hypereutectic pistons. I've used those in many builds and they're way better quality than their price suggests.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 12:23 p.m.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
So I'm good to continue the measurement of the rings?
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 2:20 p.m.
Cyl 1
Ring 1 - 0.021" Ring 2 - 0.022" Oil Ring 1 - 0.028" Oil Ring 2 0.030"
Cyl 2
Ring 1 - 0.021" Ring 2 - 0.021" Oil Ring 1 - 0.032" Oil Ring 2 0.030"
Cyl 3
Ring 1 - 0.019" Ring 2 - 0.020" Oil Ring 1 - 0.030" Oil Ring 2 0.029"
Cyl 4
Ring 1 - 0.019" Ring 2 - 0.021" Oil Ring 1 - 0.029" Oil Ring 2 0.030"
Cyl 5
Ring 1 - 0.019" Ring 2 - 0.019" Oil Ring 1 - 0.030" Oil Ring 2 0.032"
Cyl 6
Ring 1 - 0.016" Ring 2 - 0.020" Oil Ring 1 - 0.031" Oil Ring 2 0.030"
I'm 100% not going to do anything else with the rings till someone tells me this is good. As I said, I can't screw this up again
Do you happen to have ring gap specs for that engine? There will be many others along the way so a good rebuild manual might be handy.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 2:32 p.m.
In reply to WillG80 :
I'm digging through to try and find my factory manuals. I've got them somewhere, just don't know where.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 3:15 p.m.
It looks like I'm a hair out on some of these? Should I get different rings?
Dirty secret is most replacement rings are a tad loose in the gap, unless you specifically get file to fit rings. They are protecting people who just slap it together and run it.
If you wanted to really turd polish, you could get rings for a .040" overbore and deal with a little extra tension and a whole lot of filing to fit.
Notice that the oil ring gap tolerance is really wide. They basically just want to make sure they don't butt or get hung up on the expander rail. Given the way they are mounted, it really is good enough.
If you have a freshly honed bore, the ring gap is going to open up .001-.005" anyway as the rings break in.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 3:28 p.m.
So send it. Ok, I'll get the rings on the pistons.
One of the possible causes of the blowby mentioned when I discussed the current failing engine was the oil expander ring being partially collapsed or installed wrong. So get ready for pics of that.
Being off by .002 or so on gap is less harmful than a crap assembly. Read it 5 times, use lube, read it again.
I'd rather have the compression rings a few thou' loose than tight. Looks good so far.
You can run boost later... lol
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 5:38 p.m.
jgrewe said:
You can run boost later... lol
I mean, I've been thinking about welding my LS intake solid so there aren't bolts in it...
Just claim that you went a little bit wider on the ring gap because you might add a turbo later.
I'd install as is. The oil ring gap has a much wider range because the rings' main job is to hold the wavy ring in place and less for oil control.
Are you going to install with the gaps at 12 and 6, or 12, 4, and 8? I hear all kinds of suggestions. I do mine just off of 12 and 6, like top ring at 1, second ring at 6 and oil ring at 11. That maximizes the distance any compression leaking has to travel, but doesn't line up two gaps in the same spot. Then again, I've never torn an engine apart that had the rings in the right spot, so the more common theory is that they will end up wherever they end up anyway.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 5:45 p.m.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Probably just go straight 6, 12. The instructions for the oil ring say to do something closer to 12 and 2 for those. Not sure why that would be any different for those, though.
I always have religiously gone by whatever The Book of The Engine said to do.... but they move around a lot when running, so *shrug*
Hondas have been the majority of piston rings I have played with lately, and they want the two compression rings 180 apart from each other, and the oil rings 180 apart from each other, clocked 90 degrees off from the compression rings, with the expander 90 degrees off from the oil rings, and all of them are 45 degrees off from the wristpin. And then 70,000 miles later all the rings line up, get stuck, it burns enough oil to cause a misfire within a few blocks of replacing the spark plug, and you are pulling the head off to replace all the rings again
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 7:34 p.m.
So, got to this stage.
No way I was gonna berkeley this up this time!
See! Ha! Not this time, berkeleyer!
Not this.... berkeley.
And berkeley me.
Ok, one more again.
:sigh:
E36 M3 like this makes me question absolutely everything I'm doing in the garage. Swear to god.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 7:56 p.m.
Ok, so Ring #1 has no bevel. Ring #2 has a bevel. Bevel down or up?
Bevel up. Similarly, if there is a dot, it goes up.
I don't believe I have ever seen a set of rings that didn't include instructions in or on the box.
If there is a top and bottom to the ring, there is usually a dot on the ring either near the gap or 180 out from the gap. The dot generally goes up.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 8:14 p.m.
Instructions are very unclear.
Mr_Asa
UltimaDork
2/4/23 8:17 p.m.
Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) said:
Bevel up. Similarly, if there is a dot, it goes up.
I don't believe I have ever seen a set of rings that didn't include instructions in or on the box.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
If there is a top and bottom to the ring, there is usually a dot on the ring either near the gap or 180 out from the gap. The dot generally goes up.
So it makes sense that only one would have the bevel? And that would be #2?