Help me replace my 2022 Raptor

DirtyBird222 said:

4) Should I get a Lemon Law attorney? Too bad I'm a year out from completing law school. 

150% yes, you probably should have gotten one months ago to be honest.  Not too late though.

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

DirtyBird222 said:

4) Should I get a Lemon Law attorney? Too bad I'm a year out from completing law school. 

150% yes, you probably should have gotten one months ago to be honest.  Not too late though.

I've got a bad taste in my mouth from my lawyer and mediator experience from this past year thanks to my ex-wife taking me back to court in an attempt to acquire a more equitable distribution of assets. So needless to say I avoided for good reason. 

What a process. Still fighting. Ford and BBB Autoline continue to insult my intelligence. This past week they told my lawyer that the Raptor is a specialty vehicle and falls into a gray area regarding the Lemon Law process. They stated I can neither order a replacement nor can they force one of their dealers to give up inventory. They don't want to adhere to Florida's Lemon Law statute or process. I had e-mail interactions with multiple dealers ready to work with me once I received direction from Ford to move forward with the process (The Mullinax dealer network has been top notch in this process thus far, so shout out to them even though I didn't buy the truck through them). 

 When the lawyer clapped back at them, they all of the sudden want to close the loop and started offering hush money but still no replacement. 

DirtyBird222 said:

...This past week they told my lawyer that the Raptor is a specialty vehicle and falls into a gray area regarding the Lemon Law process...

That's just the kind of detail I think an automotive journalist needs to get a little more sunshine on. "Suck it, we're exempt from Lemon Laws" isn't exactly a great way to sell a high end truck that they tout being awesome because it has a warranty.

slefain said:

DirtyBird222 said:

...This past week they told my lawyer that the Raptor is a specialty vehicle and falls into a gray area regarding the Lemon Law process...

That's just the kind of detail I think an automotive journalist needs to get a little more sunshine on. "Suck it, we're exempt from Lemon Laws" isn't exactly a great way to sell a high end truck that they tout being awesome because it has a warranty.

For real.  Just look at the beating that Toyota has taken in the auto press for not honoring warranties with the 86 silicone oil pickup debacle.  I would think that Jalopnik would love to run a slam piece just to get some eyeballs.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

Dime has been dropped to some automotive journalists with inquiring minds.

If auto journos are interested, drop me a DM. Since it's an ongoing legal matter, I'm not going to spill all the tea in here until it's fully resolved. 

So technically this isn't a case yet in the state of Florida, it's an informal dispute resolution process with BBB Autoline and they are trying to circumvent state laws. Wide open if any of those auto journalist are actually interested in unveiling Ford and BBB Autoline's shady tactics. 

Just check out this line: 

"The reason is more so that they cannot force a dealership to give up a vehicle for a replacement transaction.  The dealerships in turn are reluctant to let go of any dealer inventory and especially specialty vehicles. 

The lemon law is also a gray area on whether it is the consumer’s choice on repurchase or replacement.  The lemon law indicates that after a reasonable number of repair attempt, the manufacturer must either repurchase or replace the vehicle but that a consumer cannot be forced to take a replacement.  Many manufacturers believe that this gives them the option to determine how to take a consumer out of a vehicle. 

If there is a standstill on reaching an agreement, we will need to reactivate the claim for a resolution by arbitrated decision.  Ford’s current offer would be taken off the table and both parties would present positions to the arbitrator.  Ford will likely argue that the lemon law gives them the authority to determine the remedy and that the repurchase is the quickest/easiest process to take the consume out of the vehicle. 

Ultimately, the arbitrator would have the authority to award either a repurchase or replacement based on what they believe is appropriate after hearing the positions presented by both parties. "

DirtyBird222 said:

...the manufacturer must either repurchase or replace the vehicle but that a consumer cannot be forced to take a replacement. 

Sorry to hear about your ordeal dragging on. What a mess. I'm no lawyer, but reading it from a technical standpoint basically states that the vehicle only gets replaced with a 'reasonably equivalent' vehicle if the manufacturer and consumer both agree to do a replacement... Otherwise it's repurchased regardless or whether the manufacturer, the consumer, or both that want it to be a repurchase. I don't see much gray area there. The manufacturer can't be forced to give up a vehicle they do want, and you can't be forced to take a vehicle you don't want.

The loophole would seem to be that things can obviously be done with non-equivalent replacement vehicles +/- cash outside of those limitations, which is what they're trying to do with the other offer games. The main leverage Ford has if they don't want to do a 1:1 replacement, is that if you don't find any any of their non-equivalent replacement offers to be mutually agreeable (or you don't come up with a likewise mutually agreeable non-equivalent replacement idea) I can see how repurchase becomes the 'easy button' for both them and the arbitrator.

Unfortunately, if you want a 1:1 replacement rather than repurchase, I'm not seeing very strong leverage on your side. You have a couple of instances of potential 'bad faith' negotiations (trying to charge 105% of MSRP rather than MSRP up to 105% and pushing non-equivalent replacements) and them helping make the case that the specialty nature of your raptor makes it NOT 'reasonably equivalent' to other F150's... But I don't see anything compelling enough for an arbitrator to force them into a 1:1 replacement they don't want over repurchasing.

Apologies dirty, but it reads like you are doing what you can to prevent a repurchase situation or are hoping for a different solution?

Is there a reason a repurchase is not preferred? Would seem like they would be happy to do that but you may be dragging your feet on that alternative? Maybe I am reading way too deep into it. 

How about this?  Might as well go nuts if you're getting an HD.  $80k isn't that far off what most HD trucks go for.  Depends if you want off road ability or other features.  Although I have to agree with Kevin, the Power Wagon is also a great choice.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43576692/2024-chevy-silverado-2500hd-zr2-revealed/

If they're open to a dollar-for-dollar repurchase, I would take the money and run. At this point I wouldn't want any reason for ongoing involvement with those clowns. 

Olemiss540 said:

Apologies dirty, but it reads like you are doing what you can to prevent a repurchase situation or are hoping for a different solution?

Is there a reason a repurchase is not preferred? Would seem like they would be happy to do that but you may be dragging your feet on that alternative? Maybe I am reading way too deep into it. 

Reading too far into it. 

I did change my mind and opt for a replacement and they kept offering me lesser vehicles and refused to give me a one for one replacement. The SWMBO actually pushed for that because she enjoys having a truck as well. Their reasoning being that which is posted above is why they refused to adhere to Florida's Lemon Law. 

Then they started pushing for a repurchase to sway me away from a replacement. 

I started to push them towards an arbitration board at the advice of my lawyer brother, outlining their lack of success in the state of Florida Lemon Law arbitration boards recently, their negligence to adhere to Florida Lemon Law statutes and how the board might interpret that, and the continued costs for Ford to drag this out. 

In response they have since offered (last night) to cancel the usage fee associated with a Lemon Law repurchase in the state of Florida. It's a big win considering the dollar amount associated with that. The downside is that I'm out a vehicle for the time being. The bright side is I get to do the car shopping thing all over again and some extra Benjamins in the bank. 

Ford is finally taking it back next week and covering the remainder of the loan plus I'll get some cash back in my pocket. 

I'm just going to rock my Sequoia for the time being. It's still got plenty of life left in it.

Chances are I'll get another Raptor once I can find another for MSRP. I've wanted one since they debuted back in the 00s and hate that his one sucked. The Odyssey and Sienna are still on the running though.