Help me replace my ND2 Miata

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Mountainous terrain suggests you need lazy big-dog power in your life.  I suggest C6 from your list for this reason.  With a Magnusson supercharger, because why not.

 

The best fun I had this year was crossing those mountains with a luxo sedan on gummy tires and gobs of easily accessible, Sturm und Drang-less midrange power.  The car was always more capable than I felt like pushing the road so it was an absolute ball.  And keeping the revs down and exhaust quiet means you never attract the wrong kind of attention.

 

Check the fit, though.  I cannot even fit in an ND, while the C6 is pretty close to being uncomfortably tight.

I have a big luxury coupe, a BMW 850i. It gives an experience much like you described. 

A friend has a supercharged C5 Z06. Once the novelty of that amount of power wears off, I'm just left wondering why I need that much power. 

In reply to Laserface :

My fun car has 100hp, I totally get that.

Laserface said:

DWNSHFT said:

Instead of test-driving cars, how about test-driving some seats?  Find a nice aftermarket seat that fits you, and fits the ND, plus some low-profile seat mounts.  Sure, that might set you back $1-2K but you keep all the awesomeness you already paid for in your ND.

The issue with this is losing side airbags and occupant classification. I'm not willing to risk a safety issue. The other issue is that I'd lose the neat little headrest speakers.

I'm willing to admit I bought the wrong car. 

I don't think you bought the wrong car, our preferences change over time. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I got rid of my first gen BRZ because I thought I needed a more "adult" car, so I got a 135i. Great car, murdered my wallet. 

So now I'm even older and went back to the 2nd gen BRZ. I'm respecting the break-in, but I can already tell how much stronger the new engine is keeping it below 4500. 

Really looking forward to using one of our long onramps to do a 1-4 run through the gears.

Doesn't hurt that in red it looks absolutely fantastic.

Keep in mind a 2-litre Toyobaru is nearly as quick as the new 2.4L model at a fraction of the price and without the availability issues. It's not too hard to close the gap with mods, and since you're not using the car on track, zero-to-jail times aren't so important anyway. A stock 2.0 Toyobaru is slightly faster than a stock ND in a straight line.

GameboyRMH said:

Keep in mind a 2-litre Toyobaru is nearly as quick as the new 2.4L model at a fraction of the price and without the availability issues.

.....

A stock 2.0 Toyobaru is slightly faster than a stock ND in a straight line.

Both of those statements are absolutely not true.

dps214 said:

GameboyRMH said:

Keep in mind a 2-litre Toyobaru is nearly as quick as the new 2.4L model at a fraction of the price and without the availability issues.

.....

A stock 2.0 Toyobaru is slightly faster than a stock ND in a straight line.

Both of those statements are absolutely not true.

"Faster in a straight line" is an oversimplification, sure, and may be wrong for the purposes of this discussion...an ND has slightly faster 0-60 and quarter mile times, but the 2.0 Toyobaru will start to walk away from the ND at higher speeds and tends to have the advantage on straights in track use because of that. But since this is for street use, the lower-speed performance would be more relevant.

Not sure what's wrong with my 2.0/2.4L Toyobaru comparison?

A full second of 0-60 time for starters. Pretty much everyone I've ever talked to that's driven both says the new brz is basically a totally different car. My memory of the first gen is a bit fuzzy but I tend to agree with that claim. Weight is basically the same, first gen is an optimistic 200hp with a big time torque dip, second gen is a conservative 228hp (seems like really more like 235-240) with basically no torque dip.

As for the ND comparison, maybe the brz has a bit more at high speed but that doesn't seem relevant in this case of a car that's not going to be tracked and doesn't want to be wildly exceeding speed limits. I also don't really believe that claim to be true based on the numbers, but I don't have any first hand experience. The brz realistically has maybe 15hp more, but weighs ~400lbs more.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet are the ford ST cars. The Focus ST had enough space for 6'2" and 300#, and the Fiesta ST was a bit tighter. Both were a hoot to drive and had very light clutches.

I'd hope that they're also both modern enough to be good for your mental health, and old enough to be cheap.

I'll try to get some seat time in an older 86/BRZ and a Fiesta ST. They're both available at dealerships about an hour away. Nothing on Turo, so I couldn't get a long test drive in. Seems like the Fiesta is roughly what I'm looking for and, assuming I fit, would probably be a better fit than the Focus. The Focus is about 500lbs heavier than Fiesta, and a solid 900 more than my ND. The Fiesta seems a little it will be slower on acceleration than the 86 and ND, but I don't see that being an issue. It would also be the most practical car I've owned in a while. 

The ND is hilariously impractical. I've been in the grocery store debating whether I needed more food or toilet paper on this trip because I literally can't fit both.

In reply to Laserface :

The Fiesta might be a little slower on paper but it probably won't feel that way. Boost in a car that small is fun.

In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :

I keep a VW TDI around, so I know the value of torque. I currently have an ALH swapped Rabbit pickup.

Mazda did well putting some grunt into the ND. It's still a high strung engine, though. None of my cars are my "daily", but I imagine the Fiesta would be much better to putt around in.

I'm 6'0, 190lb and I hear you on the ND Miata comfort. Seat lowering brackets made a pretty major difference for me, but I still don't love taking it on long road trips. I have the RF so the road noise is a little better than the soft top. 

Nothing is as engaging and tossable as a Miata. Everything else will be a step back in that regard. You're really not going to find quiet and comfort and keep the same driver engagement.

I had a 981 Cayman S before. Great car and very comfortable interior.  Surprisingly noisy cabin- between road noise, exhaust, and the motor right behind your head, it was not quiet.  Pretty engaging, not Miata-like.  Attracts way more attention than a Miata, IMO not in a good way.  I had my Porsche ownership experience, don't feel like I need to do it again.

Also had an E36 M3.  Felt like driving a school bus compared to a Miata.  They're all old now and will be needy.

Not a BRZ fan.  Still very tight for bigger people, still relatively noisy, semi-shoddy build quality.  I haven't been in a new one to compare.

If it were me I would be looking at the hot hatches.  Civic Si or Type R would be top of the list.  GTI or Golf Type R?  Focus RS?

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

Lowering brackets would get my head out of the wind. They will not solve the larger issue, which is my shoulders being wider than the bolsters. The black represents the seats, and the yellow my shoulder width. Nothing short of a seat swap will fix this. As already mentioned, I'm not comfortable disabling parts of the restraints system. In this case "comfort" isn't so much improving NHV, but finding seats that are large enough. If road noise is something unavoidable, thats fine. I mean, I'm already driving a Miata. If I could somehow "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" myself, I'd be good to go.

I've read the Boxsters are actually quieter than the Caymans. The convertible design isolates you from the engine where as the the cabin design in the Cayman basically has you sitting in the engine bay. 

I'm going to try to go at least sit in Fiesta ST this weekend. I feel like it would the the hot hatch most comparable to a Miata. Still apples to oranges, but I have to start somewhere.

Yes Ford did a very good job of making the fiesta feel fast and capable, even though no objective test agrees. Just enough turbo lag that you can tell when the power comes on, then pulls pretty consistently to about 5k rpm (then falls flat on its face). That plus short gears makes it feel quick of the line even as traffic is streaming by you. It's a victim of the "the customer won't know it's sporty if it doesn't ride like crap" suspension tuning method, but it does feel sporty and most of the bad ride quality is fixable relatively easily. It's definitely a different experience than a "real" sports car, but I have to admit there is something fun and satisfying about being able to just beat the crap out of it at all times and it make it do things it felt like it shouldn't be able to do. You definitely want to look at the base seats, not the recaros.

If boosted, FWD hatchbacks are options, then Veloster N or Mini Cooper S?

If a Camaro or Mustang with a four-cylinder is too much car with too much engine, cross the Porsches off the list.

The 718 Boxster S I rented was a roadgoing missile, clearly just as fast as a Nissan GT-R in a straight line but with less forgiving handling at the limit, which itself was so far up there that road visibility even on corners going towards the hill limited speeds before the tires did. The 2.5 turbo flat four is relentless. 

I'd go drive a four-cylinder Camaro. 

dps214 said:

Yes Ford did a very good job of making the fiesta feel fast and capable, even though no objective test agrees. Just enough turbo lag that you can tell when the power comes on, then pulls pretty consistently to about 5k rpm (then falls flat on its face). That plus short gears makes it feel quick of the line even as traffic is streaming by you. It's a victim of the "the customer won't know it's sporty if it doesn't ride like crap" suspension tuning method, but it does feel sporty and most of the bad ride quality is fixable relatively easily. It's definitely a different experience than a "real" sports car, but I have to admit there is something fun and satisfying about being able to just beat the crap out of it at all times and it make it do things it felt like it shouldn't be able to do. You definitely want to look at the base seats, not the recaros.

Short bit of research shows the early cars being criticized for harsh rides, with the 16+being more compliant. 

Part of the greatness in the Miata is that it's as fun at 30mph as 60 mph, in the city or in the mountains. I know that's something I'd lose stepping up to a Porsche. 

I'd definitely opt for the "lesser" seats. Those Recaro boosters look like a deal breaker. 

chaparral said:

If a Camaro or Mustang with a four-cylinder is too much car with too much engine, cross the Porsches off the list.

The 718 Boxster S I rented was a roadgoing missile, clearly just as fast as a Nissan GT-R in a straight line but with less forgiving handling at the limit, which itself was so far up there that road visibility even on corners going towards the hill limited speeds before the tires did. The 2.5 turbo flat four is relentless. 

I'd go drive a four-cylinder Camaro. 

The Mini might be OK. I've seen a lot of praise the Veloster N. I have some personal experience with base Velosters, and I've found them to be 3 door, asymmetrical monstrosities with no rear head room. 

I think the best Porsche for me would be a base 981. It wouldn't be significantly faster than the ND. The 718 base has as much power as the 981 S, and the 718 S is way more engine than I'd want. The 718 S is doing 0-60 in times that were reserved for super cars a decade ago.

Laserface said:

dps214 said:

Yes Ford did a very good job of making the fiesta feel fast and capable, even though no objective test agrees. Just enough turbo lag that you can tell when the power comes on, then pulls pretty consistently to about 5k rpm (then falls flat on its face). That plus short gears makes it feel quick of the line even as traffic is streaming by you. It's a victim of the "the customer won't know it's sporty if it doesn't ride like crap" suspension tuning method, but it does feel sporty and most of the bad ride quality is fixable relatively easily. It's definitely a different experience than a "real" sports car, but I have to admit there is something fun and satisfying about being able to just beat the crap out of it at all times and it make it do things it felt like it shouldn't be able to do. You definitely want to look at the base seats, not the recaros.

Part of the greatness in the Miata is that it's as fun at 30mph as 60 mph, in the city or in the mountains. I know that's something I'd lose stepping up to a Porsche.

That hasn't been my experience but everyone has their own definition of what that means. I would definitely say a base 981 is the right choice.

dps214 said:

Laserface said:

dps214 said:

Yes Ford did a very good job of making the fiesta feel fast and capable, even though no objective test agrees. Just enough turbo lag that you can tell when the power comes on, then pulls pretty consistently to about 5k rpm (then falls flat on its face). That plus short gears makes it feel quick of the line even as traffic is streaming by you. It's a victim of the "the customer won't know it's sporty if it doesn't ride like crap" suspension tuning method, but it does feel sporty and most of the bad ride quality is fixable relatively easily. It's definitely a different experience than a "real" sports car, but I have to admit there is something fun and satisfying about being able to just beat the crap out of it at all times and it make it do things it felt like it shouldn't be able to do. You definitely want to look at the base seats, not the recaros.

Part of the greatness in the Miata is that it's as fun at 30mph as 60 mph, in the city or in the mountains. I know that's something I'd lose stepping up to a Porsche.

That hasn't been my experience but everyone has their own definition of what that means. I would definitely say a base 981 is the right choice.

I can get a 981 and 718 on Turo. This is one of few cars I can test drive for a full weekend.