Edit: we now have spark.
edit edit: it's alive!
Working on test firing the sand rail.
engine: type 4 2.0 from 1976 bus
wired it, cranking, no spark.
here's where i am at. New coil tests good. New cap and rotor. Points are set and verified opening.
i have no spark with timing light and zero attempt to fire.
distributor was not removed or loosened from previously supposedly running engine, and even if that's off I should have spark. I checked against my timing mark and it's very close to spec.
i have 12v at points. 12v at coil +. Here's where i'm confused. With the points open and closed i have 12v at the coil -. Should i not have no voltage and continuity to ground with the points one way or the other? I'm very far removed from my days of points vehicles.
i want to post a first start video, but i can't do that if I don't have spark
Shot in the dark, but do you have a good ground from the engine? I think you should have voltage at the coil whether or not the points are open.
The points on chevy control the ground side of the circuit. Same with mopar and ford.
Vw probably the same.
Connect points to negative side of coil. Add a jumper from distributor body to battery negative for testing
Power to the positive side of the coil at all times.
Power on the negative side with points open. If you have no power, either the coil is open, or something downstream of the coil is grounded.
Should be no power on the negative side with the points closed. If it has power, the wire from the coil to distributor is open, the points are broken, the breaker plate is not grounded or the distributor is not grounded.
Roll the engine until the points are closed. Take a test light, not a volt meter. Follow the circuit from coil pos, to coil neg, to distributor connection, to point connection, to point arm, to distributor. Where does the power stop? Go back to the previous thing and see why.
The reason you don't use a voltmeter is because it requires no amperage to read voltage. An incandescent test light demands some amperage, so it gently loads the circuit, and the light will dim as resistance builds up.
The coil is not discharging ,creating spark, for some reason when the points open.
The points are the switch in the ground circuit. When they open the interrupt the current flow to the coil and it discharges creating spark.
Is there a condenser in the circuit? Could be shorted.
Yes there is a condenser. I will dig out a test light or make one.
What about the condenser?
I would definitely check the timing and engine ground.
Engine ground is direct to battery and passes the yank on it test and is the area it's bolted to clean test.
I dragged home a ‘75 fuel injected bug that refused to spark. After a day or so of failed attempts, I discovered that it had a seatbelt interlock and wouldn’t fire unless the driver’s seatbelt was buckled. Connected the belt and it fired right up. Could you still have the remnants of a similar system in there?
Your points sound like they aren't opening.
A thought, more of a theoretical thought than practical experience one. If that distributor was from a D-jetronic fuel injected engine, some of those setups had two sets of points, one for the ignition and one to time the fuel injection. I'd make sure you're connected to the correct set of points, if so.
D-jet was Bosch's low end fuel injection system and VW used it on the ACVWs rather than the expensive K-jet. Not sure what 914s used. Kind of funny to think that electronic injection is low-end and mechanical is high-end, even in the 1970s, but there you have it.
Oh, also! If you have a tach, disconnect it. My GTI wasn't running because the tach failed and was preventing the coil from getting pulled to ground. It's worth a shot.
No tach, single point distributor. I have another older grungier looking one i could test. The points are definitely opening but sounds like they might be borked up, which sucks because distributor is nice and clean inside.
wiring is simple, ignition switch and a few wires. I'll go snag a spare distributor and see if i can power it up and test it. Test light connected to - on coil staying lit solid while cranking and interwebs telling me it should be blinking if points are functioning properly
Hooked up a 914 distributor that has an additional plug for fuel injection? Purposes, just via jumpers to ground and the coil - and when i spin by hand I'm getting the test light to go off when it should. So maybe i can swipe the points and condensor off this one
Sounds like when my condenser died on my Type 1 engine. It was a real head scratcher for me too.
stupid question: What does the inside of the distributer look like? When I had my Type 4 powered beetle, I bought a couple of brand new caps that had broken contacts while still in the box.
Cap is brand new, will check that. Swapped out to the points and condensor from the other distributor and I now have flashing test light on cranking to coil - and ground, spark from coil wire to ground, but battery is tired from cranking. Putting it on the charger now. It's also possible i have the plug wires on wrong, i found a notch on the fan pulley and assumed that was the timing mark and hooked up number one based on that. I did not have flashing on my timing light on #1 wire, but i have not tested the light or tried another yet.
Getting nothing through the plug wires right now. Swapped to old cap and rotor with no change. Will swap out new coil for hell of it
edit. Put a known running coil in and no change. We know the points are doing their job, flashing light and i can measure with meter when they're open and closed. I'm confused
Did you change out the condenser as Buzzboy mentioned?
I threw a long plug wire on coil and a plug and have sweet spark.
In reply to rustybugkiller :
Yes swapped out points and condenser to ones that are now testing good
Just swapped out china plug wires for name brand ones and i have spark on a plug from the #1 wire. I moved the distributor quite a bit and now wondering if that was a mistake.
also have nice timing light flash. When timing this, the rotor contact is huge, like 1/2" wide. I'm used to the little guys on a gm HEI. To set initial timing do i want to just hit the contact on the cap with the leading edge of the rotor contact or do i want to be dead center?
Connect your test light to coil -ve and rotate the distributor until the light turns on. That'll get you really close.
edit: Durr. Was thinking of a different tool to use. If you didn't see the pre-edit then never mind.
Will do that, probably tomorrow morning. My back is sick of bending over it. Going to pull the #1 plug and find tdc and see if timing marks correspond to distributor position, in case someone effed with it before i got it. We now have spark and we have fuel(and ether) so if it won't run it's sparking at the wrong time or it's catastrophically berked, but it doesn't sound that way and it has compression.
I lied. I pulled the plug, got piston to tdc which corresponds correctly with around 0 on the timing tab. Moved distributor till light just came on which has rotor pointing just a hair before centered on the cap contact. Going to turn the key and see what's up
Still not happening. Got it set to the test light just comes on for #1 with piston at top of bore and timing mark at 0 and i got a couple coughs and no start. One would think at that point it would start on ether. I moved the distributor a little bit both ways and nothing. Changed wires on cap to 180* off for the hell of it because that happens on chevy if you set to tdc on wrong stroke and not even any sputter so i put them back.
engine is either not healthy or I'm missing something stupid.
at this point i need to walk away. I tossed a bit of $ at the intake, exhaust manifolds, flywheel and clutch kit to get the type 4 in, so i'll be incredibly upset if it doesn't work. Like enough to buy a kennedy kit to put something else in.
looks like we're now back to no spark.
so we went no spark, replaced some bits, great spark, possibly out of time, set time, got some sputters, no spark again.
i loathe pertronix products too, so I don't even consider it a viable option
