Help me understand BAT

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

I honestly believe as a citizen of the United States that someone in my position should be paying more into the country to take care of those less fortunate or able.  Having said that I'm getting really tired of people complaining and bitching about wealthy people.

This is the key sticking point, because if this was a commonly held position among wealthy and influential people I'd argue that you wouldn't have to be tired of people complaining and bitching about wealthy people. If wealthy people in general maintained your sense of social responsibility this wouldn't be a conversation that springs up over and over again.

I'd love to find a shop that charged $100/hour.  All the Indy shops here charge more like $130-150/hour.  Dealers are charging close to, or over $200/hour now.  So while $100/hour makes the math easy, I have no doubt that it's not an accurate accounting of the labor charges to build that truck.

As far as railing against the rich, I get it, it's the easy thing to do.  There are some that got their money the old fashioned way and inherited it, just got lucky being born.  Most others have worked and worked hard.  While I don't consider myself rich, I do make more than the average American.

However I took the risks.  I took on considerable debt to put myself through school, spending my entire 20's doing so.  I got training in the military where I made basically no money.  Then I put myself into more debt when I bought a practice, then again when I bought a building. 

I guess my point is if you aren't willing to make the risks and choices to try and put yourself in a better position, then you can't really throw stones at those who have...

docwyte said:

I guess my point is if you aren't willing to make the risks and choices to try and put yourself in a better position, then you can't really throw stones at those who have...

Then I'm allowed to throw stones.

In reply to docwyte :

Less than 10% of millionaires inherited anything. 

tester (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to docwyte :

Less than 10% of millionaires inherited anything. 

With the current trend of inflation we will probably all be millionaires soon.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

I honestly believe as a citizen of the United States that someone in my position should be paying more into the country to take care of those less fortunate or able. ...

Your money would be better spent going directly to charitable organizations of your choice. Your Choice. Having it go into a huge melange of programs in a vast bureaucracy is not likely going to help the particular unfortunates that you are concerned about. Give and give wisely.

AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:

tester (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to docwyte :

Less than 10% of millionaires inherited anything. 

With the current trend of inflation we will probably all be millionaires soon

When I was a kid I thought I would be rich when I owned a home worth more than $100,000. Today I can't believe that a 1,000 square foot 2 bedroom home with one bath could actually be worth more than $100,000 and that the houses in the rich neighborhood would be worth more than a million. 

What's ironic about this thread going off on one of our usual tangents is that I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of us on this have an above average income. 

There are people who would argue that our hobby adds nothing to society. We can quote you the financials of how much Motorsports and the car hobby adds to the economy but they would argue that money would be better spent elsewhere. 

I pay double for a proper pizza vs the cost of a chain store pizza..............because it's what I want and I'm willing to pay seeming outrageous amounts of money for it.

In reply to alfadriver :

$100/hr is the billable rate, not the DPE (direct personnel expense; ie salary). Billable rate is typically 1.65-2.00 x DPE, or more for a shop with a lot of specialty equipment.

Duke said:

In reply to alfadriver :

$100/hr is the billable rate, not the DPE (direct personnel expense; ie salary). Billable rate is typically 1.65-2.00 x DPE, or more for a shop with a lot of specialty equipment.

Yup.  Rent, power, taxes, consumable supplies, insurance, workman's comp, depreciation of equipment, wages for support staff -- they all cost money that needs to be covered by the hourly rate that the customer pays, and that can easily double the amount that the direct employee sees.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Since I do this for a living; I typically see a 38-42% burden rate on labor dependent on skill set.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Globally, we're in the 1% but everyone forgets that.

As for the mentality of the "rich" mentioned by a poster at the top. Plenty of them do a lot to help society, you just never hear about it because a lot of folks like to remain anonymous.

We just helped put on a local charity car show with some high end cars. Entrants had to make a donation. Maybe 30 cars showed up because of the awful weather and the show raised just over $500,000 for the local children's hospice.

Take that whatever way you choose.

In reply to ShawnG :

Interesting you use the term "Rich". To me Rich tends to imply the leased BMW, mega mansion mortgaged to the hilt, high end clothes, jewelry, and watches. Wealthy on the other hand tends to mean a more modest paid for house, a 10 year old quality vehicle, Costco and Target clothes and seven figures in the bank. 

In reply to ShawnG :

Yup, I'm pretty sure most super wealthy people will donate more to charity than I will earn in a life time.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

Then substitute "wealthy" if you prefer. "Rich" just seems to be the popular term. 

I do understand the "rich" you're describing, There's a lot of them in my area.

What happened to talking about that 135k F250?  I just looked at the ad on BAT.  I didn't even laugh.  Even if it's not a scam, which I would put money on it being, it's ridiculous.  There's not more than $5000.00 bucks there (in a period of great inflation, no less--this includes the labor to convert from 2 to 4wd).  It would ride like old, hot garbage, and it would be terrible to drive, even with the EPS system, which is probably the best part of the whole thing.  That mile-long jack shaft, while I dig the divorced transfer case concept, will probably break as soon as anyone engages 4-low.  Come on, people.  This is not a class war or disruption.  It's a joke on whoever decides to make this crap a reality.

On the other side of things, perhaps someone really wants the best, most unreasonably expensive lawn ornament to piss off a grumpy neighbor.  Winner.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ShawnG :

Interesting you use the term "Rich". To me Rich tends to imply the leased BMW, mega mansion mortgaged to the hilt, high end clothes, jewelry, and watches. Wealthy on the other hand tends to mean a more modest paid for house, a 10 year old quality vehicle, Costco and Target clothes and seven figures in the bank. 

You can be wealthy and not wear target clothes. You don't need to wear the trendy stuff, but don't need to wear wrangler jeans either. I'd agree on the paid for modest house and less flashy vehicles, watches, etc. 

While the sale price is way more than I think it's worth, I guess it was worth it to someone, and not as extreme as the sale price on the Risky Business Porsche 928 that sold at Barrett Jackson recently for almost 2 million:

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1076105_porsche-928-from-risky-business-sells-for-almost-2m-at-auction

2 million? That thing had flood damage! 

The rusty old Ford makes a bunch more sense to me than Porky up there.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Why does it makes sense? Becuase it doesn't make sense.

The world is an illogical place.

flat4_5spd said:

2 million? That thing had flood damage! 

Who's the U-boat commander? 

Barrett Jackson is the "Checkerboard slacks and blazer" car sales guy of the classic car world. They sell the sizzle but not the steak.

They just need the auctioneer to put his arm around your shoulders and say "You know what? I like you. I'm not supposed to do this but..."

I've dealt with five cars bought from those guys and they've all been in terrible condition but looked great under the lights.

So, my auction story. Several years ago, a 964 Turbo fetched big money at auction--this was just before 911 Turbo prices blew up.

I pinged a friend who owns one and also works in the industry. What did he think of the sale?

His reply: Two dudes wanted it.