Help save drifting (and motorsports as a whole) In Atlanta!

moparman76_69 wrote: And to those who say the sooner the drifting is gone the sooner the heat will die down on auto-x. Who is to say after the bill has passed that the next auto-x, regardless of how much noise it actually makes, is called in by someone in the neighborhood as a noise complaint.

Obviously, there is no guarantee.

The point is that one specific group brought undue attention to itself and is facing the consequences. The other clubs and organizations that use Turner Field have avoided such a confrontation for decades. ARSCCA has used all three available lots at the site but have abandoned two of them in efforts to accomodate the surrounding neighborhoods.

Maybe drifting hasn't been so forward looking to eliminate it's problems. Maybe the nature of the sport is simply more annoying and brought attention to itself. Maybe it's starting down a slippery slope but (for now) the proposed legislation is specifically aimed at one element. One has to wonder "Why?".

I was thinking about this last night, and came to the conclusion that although the drifters may have brought this upon themselves by being inconsiderate to the neighborhood (not all of them obviously), I don't like the way this bill was pushed through.

Unless this has been a constant source of official complaints, they should have the chance to modify their events to be more acceptable to the neighboring community. If there have been complaints, and nothing has been done.......sorry pal, you've been warned. If this is the "first shot", it seems a bit harsh, and it would seem some sort of compromise could be reached without banning their events.

plenty of autocross sites are closing down because of noise. Central Florida lost the Indian River Community College site because of that, so we're certainly sympathetic; i.e. I can understand the issue of petty noise complaints making it difficult to have events.

OTOH, I definitely dislike the attitude/lifestyle/music rubbish that surrounds drifters. Why can't a motosport just be a motorsport. Further, my (perhaps erroneous) perception is that there's more hooning on the streets with drifters than with autocrossers. (look at what that asshat Nick Bollea did.) Not signing, and probably would be one of the crotchety old people calling the cops if it was happening in my neck of the woods.

The original Drifter

Joe Gearin wrote: I was thinking about this last night, and came to the conclusion that although the drifters may have brought this upon themselves by being inconsiderate to the neighborhood (not all of them obviously), I don't like the way this bill was pushed through. Unless this has been a constant source of official complaints, they should have the chance to modify their events to be more acceptable to the neighboring community. If there have been complaints, and nothing has been done.......sorry pal, you've been warned. If this is the "first shot", it seems a bit harsh, and it would seem some sort of compromise could be reached without banning their events.

ARSCCA instituted a sound policy years ago and has delayed the event start to 10AM for the last couple of years, all in response to complaints in the neighborhood. We're trying to be good neighbors, but as long as the drifters keep doing their thing, the fear is that it will all come down on "those car people".

Joe Gearin wrote: I was thinking about this last night, and came to the conclusion that although the drifters may have brought this upon themselves by being inconsiderate to the neighborhood (not all of them obviously), I don't like the way this bill was pushed through. Unless this has been a constant source of official complaints, they should have the chance to modify their events to be more acceptable to the neighboring community. If there have been complaints, and nothing has been done.......sorry pal, you've been warned. If this is the "first shot", it seems a bit harsh, and it would seem some sort of compromise could be reached without banning their events.

This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about it. Well said. If there is a real problem, it doesn't need to be handled with such subterfuge. As an Atlanta native, his is not the way I want local politics to be handled.

I'd also like to add that I've actually been to their events, and personally haven't noticed the loud stereos, street hooning, or some of the other problems mentioned. That said, I haven't been there every time either. It just seems blown out of proportion from my experience and I desperately want to protect autocross from such a maneuver.

I don't think it's exhausts and music causing the complaint, it's the constant screeching of tortured tires that get old.

The fact of the matter is, drifting is SIGNIFICANTLY NOISIER THAN AUTO-X. There is no way of arguing that.

THIS^^^ Decibels, Schmecibels, I'd rather have someone pass my house occasionally at WOT than have some one sit in my driveway doing burnouts for 8 hours.

The drifting is EXTREMELY loud at Turner specifically, because the Blue Wall acts as an amphitheater, even if the drifting is going on in the lot above.

FWIW, I'm not trying to drive a stake between Solo and Drift guys. I want the drift guys to have fun and do their thing too. But the fact remains that we didn't start having these problems until those guys came around.

And as far as "policing" people once they leave the event, pretty much any events coordinator can tell you that's a massive legal minefield that's best left untouched. Even dealing with participants within the perimeter of the events can require official security (ie cops) to be present depending on the situation and insurance requirements.

This is confusing. Are you saying that you can't approach participants at your own events and ask them not to act like asshats without involving the cops??? Or am I reading that wrong?

I would suggest during your next driver's meeting, explaining to the participants, AND the spectators that they are stewards and ambassadors of the sport. If people are left with a bad taste, it reflects poorly on the entire group.

We've had to address these issues in the past too. Guys who know each other just messing around racing light to light on the way to the event, etc. Seems harmless, until a neighbor gets their panties in a wad, and then gets the other neighbors fired up. I haven't autocrossed in a while, but when I do, I start driving like I'm in my grandma's neighborhood the second I get off the highway; no WOT, short shifting, no heel-toe, etc.

There is pretty much a zero-tolerance policy for this type of stuff with our group. We've kicked people out of our events before, and we've refused entry to the site. I don't see how that sets up a "legal minefield," rather, it let's people know you're not f'ing around.

Matt B wrote: I've signed. Bills like this are a slippery slope. That, and the apparently shady way in which it was passed. As for the bad apples - win or lose, hopefully this will be a powerful reminder to the group to police themselves.

This is exactly why this legislation needs to be shot down. Sneek attack legislation should never be allowed to stand, no matter what its focus is.

As for the drifting, after this bill is defeated, the organizors should be not so subtly encouraged to find a new location for the sake of all the other organizations that use that facility.

BTW: I'm not hating on the drifters, anything that gets kids into motorsports is good for everybody in motorsports.

poopshovel wrote: There is pretty much a zero-tolerance policy for this type of stuff with our group. We've kicked people out of our events before, and we've refused entry to the site. I don't see how that sets up a "legal minefield," rather, it let's people know you're not f'ing around.

^^^This.

FooSchnickens wrote: The officers that are on-site are paid off duty cops and Turner Field security and are required by the event permits/insurance along with the EMTs. In fact, all the officers that have attended have a great time. One even "chased down" one of the cars on the course for fun with his lights and siren on. Like others have said, every group has its bad apples. I've seen my fair share of idiotic behavior at all manner of events be they drifting, autocross or even track days. I'm not saying we're perfect, but we're also not the dangerous outlaw hooligan scofflaws that people make us out to be, either. Any dangerous activity gets shut down immediately, be it on track or in the pits. People have been ejected from these events just like over-exuberant cone crunchers. And as far as "policing" people once they leave the event, pretty much any events coordinator can tell you that's a massive legal minefield that's best left untouched. Even dealing with participants within the perimeter of the events can require official security (ie cops) to be present depending on the situation and insurance requirements. I'm not entirely sure where the loud music bit comes from that keeps being brought up. There's only a PA system that's used to announce run groups and for the driver's meeting and closing announcements. There has been a hip-hop/rap festival that's taken up the Gold Lot on several occasions, but that has nothing to do with the drift events.

Matt B wrote: I'd also like to add that I've actually been to their events, and personally haven't noticed the loud stereos, street hooning, or some of the other problems mentioned. That said, I haven't been there every time either. It just seems blown out of proportion from my experience and I desperately want to protect autocross from such a maneuver.

That's good to see affirmation that this particular club might be, generally speaking, on the responsible and well behaved side of the spectrum.

I am curious though, since I've never actually been to a drift event, are the squealing tires from drifters really that much louder than those of all the street-tire cars squealing their way around SCCA courses? I know that the exhausts can't be that much louder. I mean I understand that there is going to be more tire squealing at the drift events, but where does one specifically draw the line and who will get to decide where that line is?

I do think that it is only fair that the club be informed, and allowed to attempt resolving community concerns, before such durastic legal actions are specifically taken against them.

Not even sure how I managed this double post...Apparently I'm just that talented.

Driven5 wrote: I am curious though, since I've never actually been to a drift event, are the squealing tires from drifters really that much louder than those of all the street-tire cars squealing their way around SCCA courses?

If you're trying to get around a course fast, tire squeal is a bad thing. Not that it doesn't exist at an autox, but it's a WHOLE lot less.

DILYSI Dave wrote: If you're trying to get around a course fast, tire squeal is a bad thing. Not that it doesn't exist at an autox, but it's a WHOLE lot less.

Maybe the top competitive street tire compounds are agressive enough to not make much noise, but there have been plenty of people at almost every even I can remember attending who were on much harder/crappier tires which simply can't be driven at their fastest without screaming in agony around every turn...Which is what I'm trying to use as a frame of reference to get an idea of how loud drifting tire noise is.

A screaming tire isn't a gripping tire.

Our last AutoX coincided with a drift event two lots up (300 yards away) and we could hear them all day long over our own event.

Every SCR-SCCA event begins with a drivers meeting (duh) during which it is made VERY clear that anyone who is seen off the premises driving like an idiot will 1) be told not to return 2) they will receive no support from the club if they get pulled 3) if it's bad enough the cops might get called. The 'ambassadors of the sport' thing is mentioned as well.

The bad part is when the local fart can ricers roll in, look around, then have to show off their mad tyte drift skills yO as they leave. Since they are not participants, we have no way of policing them. We just hope the police etc see that as well.

About noise: what seems perfectly reasonable to you or I can be completely unreasonable to another. At an OHV trail meeting I attended, one woman stood up and said if it was louder than a sailboat it was too loud. I also got put on the trailer for 'too loud' at an event. Damn rotaries. But having been through all the noise crap with OHV, I could understand. I didn't like it, but I could understand.

poopshovel wrote: This is confusing. Are you saying that you can't approach participants at your own events and ask them not to act like asshats without involving the cops??? Or am I reading that wrong? I would suggest during your next driver's meeting, explaining to the participants, AND the spectators that they are stewards and ambassadors of the sport. If people are left with a bad taste, it reflects poorly on the entire group. We've had to address these issues in the past too. Guys who know each other just messing around racing light to light on the way to the event, etc. Seems harmless, until a neighbor gets their panties in a wad, and then gets the other neighbors fired up. I haven't autocrossed in a while, but when I do, I start driving like I'm in my grandma's neighborhood the second I get off the highway; no WOT, short shifting, no heel-toe, etc. There is pretty much a zero-tolerance policy for this type of stuff with our group. We've kicked people out of our events before, and we've refused entry to the site. I don't see how that sets up a "legal minefield," rather, it let's people know you're not f'ing around.

I was referring more to interacting with participants once they have left the premises of the event. We have much the same discussions in the driver meetings before our events start as well. We've had our fair share of people act a fool and pay the price for it. Believe me when I say we nip that type behavior in the bud as soon as it rears its head. We've banned people in the past from ever returning, even as spectators. The "legal minefield" was more of a reference to people's propensity to suing the ever-loving pants off you if you so much as lay a finger on them for any reason. Combine that with the fact that all the proceeds from these events go directly towards paying off the permits, insurance premiums, EMT/security officials and the rental for the lot itself the last thing that is wanted is a frivolous lawsuit. I'm not saying action isn't taken, but when it is, it is done so carefully and often with the assistance of an official to be sure all the appropriate dots and crosses are placed on their corresponding Is and Ts.

I also think that a lot of the recent reports of bad behavior came from the Import Alliance meet that happened a few weeks ago directly after one of our events. I know that as we were packing up people were already rolling into the orange, gold and green lots en masse and staking out spots for the following day. It's very possible that people took advantage of the fact that there was an event held there and used it as an excuse to get some hooning of their own in.

Thanks again for all the support, guys. Hopefully we can save all forms of motorsport in Atlanta.

Signed (This is worth every bit of spam I will get from Change.org)

Don't know if it's different in other places, and not passing judgment on anyone. I'll just say this- If you think you hate drifters, but haven't been out to an event, stop by and see what it's about. Some of them may be more annoying than the ones here, but when I went out to see what it was all about, it was a bunch of car guys having fun and trying to get their cars to do stuff. Younger than me, but otherwise, same kind of guys I see at an autocross. I left with a much different opinion about the whole thing. Still not something I'm likely to get into, but it was fun to watch, and a couple of guys came over to ask me about my MR2.

Take care,

Ed

fast_eddie_72 wrote: If you *think* you hate drifters

Don't cloud the issue on this. I doubt anybody HATES drifting, which isn't why people are suggesting don't sign. There are very specific reasons why the drifting shouldn't be happening there.

Wow, guess Saudi Arabia hates drifting even more than Atlanta.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/06/27/saudi-drifter-sentenced-to-death-by-beheading/

To be fair, apparently this bonehead caused a fatality drifting . . . in traffic . . . on a public road. Still beheading seems harsh.

Signed and shared on FB.

Done!

FYI, the ordinance already passed and was signed into law.

I feel that enforcement of existing laws should be more than enough to deal with this problem, this new law opens the door to interfering in any motorsports activity.

Some bonehead does a fast driveby at a car show, is it now open to be cancelled under this law?