New material just applied and trimmed.
New material just applied and trimmed.
I always loved these in HS. This and the Buick GN were my HS dream cars, and the Mustang SVO.....
Nice job on the head liner. Yes, the wanderbar is worth putting on if you don't have one already.
Now tell us about the yellow car parked next to the GTA...
In reply to jrh2009 :
What adhesive did you use on the headliner? Whatever I’ve used, never lasts.
Oh, beautiful car!
Thanks guys.
I used to work for an automotive trim shop, so I got lots of practice doing headliners there.
For the glue, I use 3M 38808 upholstery adhesive. It's the only stuff you can buy out of a spray can that works. Everything else will turn loose the first time the interior heat up. 38808 isn't bothered by heat, and in 15 years of using it for smaller jobs, I've never had a failure. You just have to make sure the old board is completely clean before using applying it. (Then you spray both the board and the fabric, and let each sit for a couple of minutes. Let it get tacky, not wet. Then it's ready to apply.)
The yellow car is a 70 Charger R/T 440/auto car I've owned since 99, and is built to be a pro touring/highway car. It has a catalog of bolt on suspension upgrades, efi, and a ton of functional upgrades that Mopar purists seem to loathe. Its due for a refresh of it's 440, but I want to do a few more suspension upgrades, and upgrade the brakes before going through the engine.
I'll make a separate build thread for it one day.
Near as I can tell, I build and choose my vehicles based on asking "what car would I want to be driving in a 1970s-80s car chase movie?
I can't explain my tastes any other way.
Both very awesome cars. An early Christmas for my eyes. Thanks for posting.
jrh2009 said:
Near as I can tell, I build and choose my vehicles based on asking "what car would I want to be driving in a 1970s-80s car chase movie?
I can't explain my tastes any other way.
That is what I have been trying to put into words forever. Perfect way to explain it!
Well, I thought I'd update this thread one month into Trans Am ownership.
The only mechanical issue I've had so far is a weak fuel pump. I drove it for the first time in a warm day, and the fuel pump started groaning really loud, then after 10 minutes, the engine started sputtering under load. So sure enough, the fuel pump had to come out.
Luckily, the previous owner included a ton of spare parts, including a brand new Delphi pump that was never installed. So all it would cost me was my time.
The catch was, GM didn't cut any access hole in the floor, and the "official" method to change the pump is to drop the axle, exhaust, and tank out the bottom. Of course, lots of guys cut a hole in the floor. This car had never been cut, so it left me with a tough choice. Cut the floor, and take the easy way out (which would make future replacement a breeze), or do it the "correct" way, and drop the tank.
Well:
I couldn't bring myself to cut up the car. It's been well maintained all it's life, and I just couldn't bring myself to cut it now. The plus side is, I got a close look at the bottom of this thing, and it's CLEAN. It spent most of it's life in the southwest, and it shows. This thing came apart like Legos. All went well, I didn't cut the floor, and the car is A1 again.
Now for fun stuff, I changed the wheel to a Momo "Race" wheel. The stock wheel was like driving a school bus. The new wheel is 350mm, and is the perfect size for me. As a bonus, the spokes have a bronze-ish tint, which matches the tan and gold great. 
Mods, feel free to move this to the builds and project car section, I'll keep updating the build thread.
That steering wheel looks awesome. I think a Momo steering wheel is like torq thrust or minilite wheels...................they just about make everything look better.
Feedyurhed said:That steering wheel looks awesome. I think a Momo steering wheel is like torq thrust or minilite wheels...................they just about make everything look better.
Thanks man. I think it just looks "right" for the car.
It seems fitting a trim package inspired by European cars of the era should have an Italian steering wheel.
Feels niiiiiccceee to the touch too. It's awesome.
Thank you for not cutting the floor. If it were a rusty beater ok, but not a clean car like this. Why GM didn't put access plates in their cars I will never under stand. Yes, it would add $2 to the price of building each car, but they would have saved it on warranty time.
I don't mind dropping the tank other than the filler neck. I told my buddy with the '92 RS that if he made me help dropping the tank one more time I'm sawzalling the filler neck and making him splice it back together. (Ignoring that we had to drop it the 3rd time because I didn't get a clamp on the pump tight). I think he decided a 4th gen tank is going in if we have to take it out again.
Dropping in to say that I'm super excited for you. That is so gorgeous.
jrh2009 said:Now for fun stuff, I changed the wheel to a Momo "Race" wheel. The stock wheel was like driving a school bus. The new wheel is 350mm, and is the perfect size for me. As a bonus, the spokes have a bronze-ish tint, which matches the tan and gold great.
Awesome! Do you have any more information on how to install the Momo? I have a 91 Camaro and have heard you need to grind the Momo hub and remove the clock spring, but then I've read people leave the clock spring in place. How did your install go?
The install is a breeze man, it's very straightforward.
I removed the clock spring because it was binding on my wheel adapter. It's only held on by a single clip. It comes off in seconds.
I used this Momo adapter.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOM-2401
The only real hiccup you have is you have to disable the air bag warning light once you remove it. I just cut the wire at the end of the column, and soldered a 2.2 ohm resistor at the end, and the air bag system thinks the bag is still in place. No warning lights. And I could still put the original wheel back in anytime if I wanted.
You could also pull the bulb out of the cluster, but then you risk damage disassembling/reassembling the dash.
Everything works great, even the horn. Also, it makes the driving experience MUCH better.
Also, I discovered today the car has already been fitted with a Wonderbar. That was a nice suprise.
Thanks! You have a beautiful car, it's coming together nicely.
Did you have to grind any material off of the hub to get it to fit right? I've heard that on the airbag cars, the momo hub doesn't perfectly clear the column and you have to do some simple metal grinding.
Glad to hear it is reversible - did you disconnect the clock spring cable at the base of the dash and then yank it out of the column? I want to ensure it can easily go back to stock if I want to, I imagine it's not too hard to put that cable back in.
My 91 has 30k miles - it's a B4C police package car that never saw service, 5.0 TPI V8 with the T5 manual. Only modifications are a wonder bar, Hotchkis lowering springs, Bilsteins, poly bushings, stainless steel brake lines, better stock-sized pads/rotors, 17x9 GTA Wheels on 275/40 BFGs, an adjustable rear panhard, flowmaster muffler, and an iPod hookup hidden behind the original radio delete panel... and hopefully soon a Momo Montecarlo and Hurst that I have sitting in the garage. All the original parts down to the tires are in storage, and I want to keep it so it can all go back to original with a few days of wrenching if I were to ever sell. Otherwise we'd be welding in subframe connectors...
Thanks for answering my questions and I look forward to seeing where things go with your car!
Global West sold a triangular strut tower brace, that's what i have on my car. For a rad i use a Griffen with LS1 fans and a 180 stat - it never budges, ever, stays at 180. i don't have A/C (track car mainly) but i will recommend using the March pulley set up. i have a proper oil cooler and remote filter set up that makes oils changes easier. I run Time Attack with my 1LE IROC Z and use the KYB AGX adjustable struts and shocks and i will say that i have reached the end of their performance envelope and will be using more heavy duty units next year. i also run Global West Heim jointed rear LCA's with anti-squat brackets and Dur-Alum front LCA bushings. they are great.
The biggest problem i found with my car and its a problem for all these cars is threshold braking. As you have already upgraded to 14" fronts this should be a non-issue (i am changing the 12" 1LE fronts for '18 SS Camaro 14" set up), but if you find the back end bouncing under braking then that's the geometry problem these cars have. it can be fixed but you may never see it unless you drive it 10/10's.
great car, have fun with it.
matt
Anyone know if that Momo adapter also works on non airbag cars? I know the part number I saw on amazon was listed as 90-92. I don't know if the column on my '87 is different or not.
Yes, the non air bag column is different. My car had a worn out tilt mechanism so I swapped in an earlier column so I could use my nice 3 spoke steering wheel. It would not fit a bag column.
In reply to Gearheadotaku :
I may just not bother since I do have the one of the better stock steering wheels. Good to know before I threw money at it.
That's an awesome Camaro KMK. It's gorgeous. That's interesting to see a police package car with a manual transmission. I'd like to see more pics of it, feel free to post them in this thread.
As far as grinding the Momo hub, no, there was absolutely no grinding involved. Once I removed the clock spring, the Momo hub slid right on. I don't know if I just got lucky or what, but I didn't have to grind anything.
I imagine you would have to grind it if you wanted to keep the clock spring installed. I see no reason to leave the spring that would be serving no purpose after installing the new wheel, so I didn't hesitate to remove it.
The correct way to remove it would be to unclip it from the base of the column and remove it. But if you do this, there's no easy way to install a resistor to shut off the airbag warning light. Aside from getting another connector from a junkyard, and soldering the resistor to that.
In my case, since its not the main harness, and can be easily replaced, I took the easy route, and cut the clock spring wire at the top of the column, by the wheel. I figured it would be easier to solder the resistor in there, and the resistor would be safe from accidentally getting kicked by my feet getting in or out of the car. If I ever want to put the stock wheel back in, I'll just solder the two wires back together, or replace the clock spring. The new wheel is such a HUGE improvement though, I can't imagine ever going back to it.
And Matt, is the rear end hopping under threshold braking the main geometry problem your referring to? I won't get to track the car until March, so I haven't got to see it first hand. Can you give me the ELI5 version of what causes the geometry problem? Does it only appear under threshold braking?
I sold an E36 M3 I was using for track days and replaced it with this T/A, so I expect to have a learning curve at track days. I don't push myself harder than 7 or 8/10ths at an HPDE though, so I may not experience the bulk of the geometry problem.
Thanks for the input guys, it's really helpful. I don't have anything new to report yet, I work two jobs with one being swing shift, so time is limited. But I have some parts coming in the near future that should make for a fun update to the thread.
jrh2009 said:That's an awesome Camaro KMK. It's gorgeous. That's interesting to see a police package car with a manual transmission. I'd like to see more pics of it, feel free to post them in this thread.
Thanks! They made about 1200 or so of the police package cars from 91-92, and I'd say maybe 300-400 were manuals. Most were beaten in to the ground from patrol work, but a decent number survived. Mine was purchased by a dealership with a fleet number (required for the police package cars) but they sold it to a private buyer instead. A few escaped service this way.
I bought mine to drive and enjoy as a toy; never got to buy one new, so bought a low mile survivor.
I'm trying to draw inspiration from the BMW and Porsche crowd, who set their cars up for twisty road fun and the occasional casual autocross or track day, hence my interest in the Momo to improve upon the cheap plastic GM wheel. After you cut the cable, did you tape your clock spring cable inside the column or is it sitting in there free? I just need to decide on whether to yank it or cut it and go for it...
Regarding your temperature, these cars run like that. Mine will do 180-190 all day long when cruising. Get in stop and go or sit and idle and the temp easily creeps up to 230ish at which point the fan finally turns on and brings it down to 215 or so until the car gets rolling again. Not a problem for fun drives, but the car can heat soak in between autocross runs. Common solutions include a fan switch (manual or chip) and a cooler thermostat. I think the factory thermostat is 195 and the secondary fan isn't programed to come on until much later.
If you're changing your wheel/tire setup at all for track days, stock-ish fbodys like square setups as they're front heavy.
jrh2009 said:And Matt, is the rear end hopping under threshold braking the main geometry problem your referring to? I won't get to track the car until March, so I haven't got to see it first hand. Can you give me the ELI5 version of what causes the geometry problem? Does it only appear under threshold braking?
I sold an E36 M3 I was using for track days and replaced it with this T/A, so I expect to have a learning curve at track days. I don't push myself harder than 7 or 8/10ths at an HPDE though, so I may not experience the bulk of the geometry problem.
Yes, the instant center difference from acceleration to braking is the problem. The rear end bouncing even when you match revs to downshift creates an early threshold limit. A decent track surface helps, Good tires help, i found the biggest difference was in brake pad selection. But realistically with the big 14” brakes up front you should be able to push it to your comfort zone without disruption. I’m running the 12” 1LE fronts with Hawk Blue pads up front and the crappiest cheap pads I could find in the rear. I’ve picked up the ‘18 SS 14” fronts for next season, hoping that helps it more, I’m also stepping up to 275/40-17’s and that should be the end of the rear end bouncing - i hope.
Sorry for the delay guys, I work two jobs, and one of them is swing shift. Anyways.
Beautiful car KMK! I love it. We have the same build philosophy. I'm trying to shed the "trailer park" image third gens seem to have, and take styling license from 80s and 90s European cars. I'm trying to dial out as much of that crude 80s GM-ness as possible. I also have the idea to pad the center armrest, and wrap it in Nappa leather. I figure upgrade the quality of everything you touch frequently HAS to help some.
I cut the wire at the top of the column. I left two inches or so of wire on the clock spring so I could solder it back together one day if I wanted. There is a square-ish notch on the lower left of the column, the resistor fit perfectly in there. I didn't see a need to tape the wire to the column, but you can if you like.
I believe if you want to unclip the clock spring and remove it in one piece, you either have too disassemble part of the column, or un-pin the yellow connector at the base, and pull it through the column. (Of course, if you go that route, you have to figure out how to attach the resistor to the harness connector that the clock spring formaly cliped into.)
I have no issues with cutting the wire. The improvement in driving feel is 110% worth it! The car feels more like how I imagined it should feel after the new wheel. The Monte Carlo wheel would look perfect in your car, I vote go for it!
Matt, that's good info on the braking problem, I appreciate that input. Most of my track days I plan on running will be at Road Atlanta, and Atlanta Motorsports Park. Both have really smooth surfaces. The car has 18x10s on all 4 corners, but the rear tires are slightly bigger. I'll square them up when it's time to replace them. Hopefully I can get to Road Atlanta in March, if the work schedule permits.
hope you can get on track and don't be afraid to post a couple pics from that day...always want to see a good 3rd gen on the track!
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