rotard wrote: Also, I appreciate the bravado, but your 964 is not almost keeping up with a well-driven C5 Z06.
You wouldn't think so... but here we are. Wherever I go to instruct there are C5 Z-06s because they are popular and I can play pretty well with them everywhere but the places with very long straights. Summit is great, VIR or the Glen... not so much. Speed isn't all power - but power does ruin my fun once we run out of corners.
Of course, the above is also true of my $6,000 turbo Miata ;)
nderwater wrote: Of course, the above is also true of my $6,000 turbo Miata ;)
I like the interiors in NBs. 
nderwater wrote: alfadriver - I've read the entire thread. Have you read any of my posts? Vettes are priced from $50,000 to well over $100,000. There are AMG's, M cars, V cars and other options in that price range that also post big power numbers and are also much more refined. Even the Regal and LaCross have better interiors. GM is cutting corners with the Vette.
So?
My point isn't that they are not cutting corners, it's that they are making a car that you think should be in the came class as Mercedes, Porsche, and other high end cars.
As opposed to Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai.
GM wins.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:alfadriver wrote: Have any of you read what you are all posting? Comparing a GM product with Porsche and Ferrari as opposed to Toyota? GM wins.Wasn't the last time Toyota made a 2 seater sports car 2005? Or will we compare it with the $375k LF-A?
Which Toyota has been competitive in international racing for 60 odd years now? The LF-A has been meaningless outside of magazines.
GM wins handily.
alfadriver wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Which Toyota has been competitive in international racing for 60 odd years now? The LF-A has been meaningless outside of magazines. GM wins handily.alfadriver wrote: Have any of you read what you are all posting? Comparing a GM product with Porsche and Ferrari as opposed to Toyota? GM wins.Wasn't the last time Toyota made a 2 seater sports car 2005? Or will we compare it with the $375k LF-A?
I'm completely lost.
Either that or you just supported my point.
I still don't understand why we WOULD compare a vette to a Toyota... you don't seem to be giving any reasons why we should?
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
The comparisons here are that the vette is being compared to Porsche, Mercedes, and other quite high end products. This is a GM product that generally is better performing than the others.
Considering the level of GM bashing here, raising the comparison bar so high- they win. Especially that we have to find that materials are not up to a precived standard for them to not be good.
It would be interesing to see real build quality data (not materials, but reliabilty kind of stuff)- I bet that GM would be better....
That i can understand...
But the more telling point is what's been stated a few times within this thread if we're stuck on interior things. GM has nicer interiors in cars that cost less.
Stop dipping in the Cavalier and dip into the Regal if you must.
When the C6 came out a friend and I went to one of the GM Autoshow in Motion events. We got to drive a base C6 back to back with the then current CTS-V and we both liked the V better. Granted the V does not hold a candle to the C6 on a race track but in the other 98% of the time you are in the car the V sounded better, felt better, and the inside was much better.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Stop dipping in the Cavalier and dip into the Regal if you must.
To be fair to the C6 Corvette, it's interior came out in 2005, and at that time the only GM interior better was the GTO. All of the nicer interiors in "lesser" cars GM makes today are from 2010 model releases at the oldest. It's kind of unfair to knock it so badly just because this generation is now 8 years old.
Also, I find it hilarious that people were comparing the $136,000 GT3 RS 911 to the $56,000 Corvette Grand Sport. You could buy the GS and still have enough cash leftover to buy the Z06 at $75,000.
Javelin wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Stop dipping in the Cavalier and dip into the Regal if you must.To be fair to the C6 Corvette, it's interior came out in 2005, and at that time the only GM interior better was the GTO. All of the nicer interiors in "lesser" cars GM makes today are from 2010 model releases at the oldest. It's kind of unfair to knock it so badly just because this generation is now 8 years old. Also, I find it *hilarious* that people were comparing the $136,000 GT3 RS 911 to the $56,000 Corvette Grand Sport. You could buy the GS and still have enough cash leftover to buy the Z06 at $75,000.
Nah man, its a valid comparison since they're in the same performance ballpark...
Javelin wrote: Also, I find it *hilarious* that people were comparing the $136,000 GT3 RS 911 to the $56,000 Corvette Grand Sport. You could buy the GS and still have enough cash leftover to buy the Z06 at $75,000.
I bet that you could send the Corvette with $10,000 to a custom upholstery shop and they would put leather/alacantra/whatever over every plasticky surface and fix the lousy interior problems. Add in some nice aftermarket seats, voila. Problems solved.
Javelin wrote: Also, I find it *hilarious* that people were comparing the $136,000 GT3 RS 911 to the $56,000 Corvette Grand Sport. You could buy the GS and still have enough cash leftover to buy the Z06 at $75,000.
It is what people compare it to when they talk about performance though, right?
Like "My Z-06 stomps them Porchs and euro E36 M3 like them other ones - hold my big gulp a sec... crap - do any a yuns know how to put the door handle back on? I cayn't see down thar with the shine comin' off the blue chiklets on the dash and the reflection from my huge gold medallion"
If comparison the other way can boast that it's a bargain Chevy and better than the equal of a 997 on a drag strip we ought to be able to point out that it might not be up to snuff in other areas one might find valuable in a car, no?
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Javelin wrote: Also, I find it *hilarious* that people were comparing the $136,000 GT3 RS 911 to the $56,000 Corvette Grand Sport. You could buy the GS and still have enough cash leftover to buy the Z06 at $75,000.It is what people compare it to when they talk about performance though, right? Like "My Z-06 stomps them Porchs and euro E36 M3 like them other ones - hold my big gulp a sec... crap - do any a yuns know how to put the door handle back on? I cayn't see down thar with the shine comin' off the blue chiklets on the dash and the reflection from my huge gold medallion" If comparison the other way can boast that it's a bargain Chevy and better than the equal of a 997 on a drag strip we ought to be able to point out that it might not be up to snuff in other areas one might find valuable in a car, no?
No no... this is GRM. The cheapest car always wins everything. Hands down.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Javelin wrote: Also, I find it *hilarious* that people were comparing the $136,000 GT3 RS 911 to the $56,000 Corvette Grand Sport. You could buy the GS and still have enough cash leftover to buy the Z06 at $75,000.It is what people compare it to when they talk about performance though, right? Like "My Z-06 stomps them Porchs and euro E36 M3 like them other ones - hold my big gulp a sec... crap - do any a yuns know how to put the door handle back on? I cayn't see down thar with the shine comin' off the blue chiklets on the dash and the reflection from my huge gold medallion" If comparison the other way can boast that it's a bargain Chevy and better than the equal of a 997 on a drag strip we ought to be able to point out that it might not be up to snuff in other areas one might find valuable in a car, no?
The Z06 is faster on a drag strip and on a race track. Oh noez.
rotard wrote: The Z06 is faster on a drag strip and on a race track. Oh noez.
Possibly. I will be glad to conduct the testing.
I think they probably get a little closer in price to the RSR before they win sanctioned races though. Oh, they improve the seat quite a bit too.
scardeal wrote: I still don't get why anyone cares about the interior of a driver's car besides the "touch points", eg the seats, shifter, steering wheel and pedals, and visibility. The moment I mash the pedals, I couldn't care less about the rest of the interior.
This plus a million. Why is the rest of the interior such a big deal? The new Corvette goes like stink and is built in the good ole US of A.
Wow. GM hate in full force in here. Amazing. I guess I am not an interior guy. I have rarely been in an interior that screams "get out" to me, and I don't think I've ever really noticed the other extreme either. My boss seemed to think the MDX we had as a company car was full of these soft touch plastics, but I didn't get it. If I look at a 1st gen MR2, the interior looks like complete horse----, but everyone here seems to like those. The only outstanding interior I have ever witnessed was the baseball glove Audi TT from years ago at the Detrit auto show. I've been in many Corvettes, driven a few. They all seemed fine from an interior standpoint. You guys are either being picky, being pricks, or would prefer cross shopping an Corolla with an S class, for as far apart as the MSRP and maintenance prices are on some of these comparisons...
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:rotard wrote: The Z06 is faster on a drag strip and on a race track. Oh noez.Possibly. I will be glad to conduct the testing. I think they probably get a little closer in price to the RSR before they win sanctioned races though. Oh, they improve the seat quite a bit too.
Oh, I was comparing it to the 997 that's closer to it's price. Kudos to it for being compared to the RSR!
rotard wrote:Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Oh, I was comparing it to the 997 that's closer to it's price. Kudos to it for being compared to the RSR!rotard wrote: The Z06 is faster on a drag strip and on a race track. Oh noez.Possibly. I will be glad to conduct the testing. I think they probably get a little closer in price to the RSR before they win sanctioned races though. Oh, they improve the seat quite a bit too.
Oh, I read that above somewhere. It isn't compared to the RSR or the RS much I'd imagine any more than it is compared to a shifter kart but... still... I'll do the testing.
irish44j wrote:plance1 wrote:Considering how much stuff GRM does with Subarus (rallycross, autocross, tire tests, etc etc etc), I think he's not going to like it there. Because Subies have way more plastic than a vette! My sub-$30k 2009 wrx is nothing but hard plastic inside. I don't mind, personally. But it could throw someone with anti-hard-plastic disease into seizures.Alan Cesar wrote: It's cramped, uncomfortable, has crap visibility, and nothing about it made me happy driving it on the street—this coming from the guy who dailies a Miata. But it's the 50th anniversary package that particularly annoys me. All that alcantara inside next to some incredibly cheap plastic panels and switchgear. If you're gonna charge five grand for what is basically just an appearance package, it should be considerably nicer. Even some fake carbon fiber appliques over the flat black stuff would've made it more palatable. And the flat, narrow seat drove me nuts. I don't doubt its performance cred, but man, I hated every minute inside that car.Hilarious. I went back and read this post and even this crazy weird anti plastic disease has infected magazine employees, so called car guys...and to make it even worse, when you go further and start advocating for fake carbon fiber you know you've jumped the shark and become a poser.
In his defense, Alan is a pretty swell guy. I don't say that about everyone.
After more discussion, it seems his complaints were more from the price for the anniversary upgrade than the basic Corvette. (The anniversary package is mostly expensive stickers, which is a point I'd concede.)
At least that's what his story is now. 
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:rotard wrote:Oh, I read that above somewhere. It isn't compared to the RSR or the RS much I'd imagine any more than it is compared to a shifter kart but... still... I'll do the testing.Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:Oh, I was comparing it to the 997 that's closer to it's price. Kudos to it for being compared to the RSR!rotard wrote: The Z06 is faster on a drag strip and on a race track. Oh noez.Possibly. I will be glad to conduct the testing. I think they probably get a little closer in price to the RSR before they win sanctioned races though. Oh, they improve the seat quite a bit too.
Oh, it's compared to the GT3 RS quiet often...and wins. Yay!
nderwater wrote: alfadriver - I've read the entire thread. Have you read any of my posts? Vettes are priced from $50,000 to well over $100,000. There are AMG's, M cars, V cars and other options in that price range that also post big power numbers and are also much more refined. Even the Regal and LaCross have better interiors. GM is cutting corners with the Vette.
Except the AMG will probably fall apart in 5 years. Every MB I have been around was a massive POS.
Anyway I like my cars kinda raw. I would love to daily a Caterham 7 R500 if it had a top.
In reply to 93EXCivic:
It does have a nicer seat and no cheap buttons on the radio. Perhaps a comparison with the unassailable bargain Z-06 is in order. I wonder - is the Z-06 still a bargain when the Caterham is half the price and crushes it handily? No, of course not because the Vette has a !DOH!... crappy interior 
Where do you go - roof?
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
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