I took a telsa out for a test drive here in the dead of our canadian winter. It drove exactly how I thought a 5000lb RWD vehicle would, struggled everywhere. When the battery is cold, performance was similar to a prius or my old 4runner with the 3.slow, and to add further insult the cabin never could get hot.
ProDarwin said:Every car needs a rental mode.
Even the gear shifters in a lot of newer cars are different for no good reason. I blame Toyota -- 99% of cars had a chunk-chunk-chunk PRNDL shifter until the Prius came along, and now everyone is different just for different's sake. Dumb.
mblommel said:In reply to ddavidv :
I was watching Sandy Monroe this weekend talk about how every auto manufacturer is looking at going to "gigacastings" for their unibodies now that they have been pioneered by Tesla. Is there any data on the repair implications of this type of construction? Seems like a lot of cars written off as totaled in the near future.
From what I can tell, to damage the gigacasting you'd have to have the same sort of accident that would write off any other kind of unibody. Structural battery packs, I don't know.
alfadriver said:ddavidv said:It stops about there. You go in any deeper, and the price escalates to silly pretty quickly. Plus, Tesla requires shops to be 'Tesla certified' or they won't sell you parts, so of course the hourly labor rate is at least half again as much as a normal brand. Lots of line item additional charges for plugging the thing in and going through the Tesla electronic 'toolbox'. But why care? Insurance will just pay for it!
How is that legal? There are a ton of laws that protect the independent repair shops for cars, as far as I know.
It's one of those stories that "everyone knows", but I haven't seen properly confirmed. I know you can buy a lot of Tesla parts, but there are a few that are marked "Tesla only". They tend to be things like battery packs. There's been a lot of back and forth on repairing salvage title Teslas and allowing high speed charging, that would almost definitely require a certified shop. Anyone working on EVs should have the proper training and equipment as well, there are lots of ways to hurt yourself if you're uneducated in the nature of high voltage systems. Just like you can hurt yourself building a tube amp.
The Tesla toolbox (that's what it's called) is a subscription that's required to do certain extra tasks - you can subscribe per day, month or year. Naturally, the shorter the term the more is it per day. It's similar to the tools needed to do things like tell my E39 it has a new airbag computer, I had to take the BMW to Denver for that.
Keith Tanner said:mblommel said:In reply to ddavidv :
I was watching Sandy Monroe this weekend talk about how every auto manufacturer is looking at going to "gigacastings" for their unibodies now that they have been pioneered by Tesla. Is there any data on the repair implications of this type of construction? Seems like a lot of cars written off as totaled in the near future.
From what I can tell, to damage the gigacasting you'd have to have the same sort of accident that would write off any other kind of unibody. Structural battery packs, I don't know.
I can see what you're getting at, but isn't the point of the gigacasting that it incorporates all those brackets that were separate pieces previously? What about a steering rack or sway bar mount? If I accidently hit some road debris that cracks the aluminum die-cast mount for one component is my car then totaled?
This makes me think of the control arm pickup points on a Lotus Elise. One small accident and those can be torn out. Then the tub is "unrepairable" and the car is totaled.
I dunno, I'm probably overreacting but it is concerning considering the entire front and rear sections are one large die cast part.
I guess I'm a bit gunshy with Tesla's construction methods after seeing the episode of Rich Rebuilds where he fixed a Tesla that apparently was quoted $20k in repairs due to a broken plastic elbow on the low pressure battery coolant system. I think they fixed it with a brass elbow and an NPT tap.
Just to be clear, I'm not anti-electric car, quite the opposite in fact. But, I am cautious of what I've heard/read regarding repairing Teslas.
In reply to mblommel :
All I know is that an EV rental rocks, and the term "gigacasting" sounds like my 12 year old made it up during a brainstorming session, then decided later that it was too immature.
It's called gigacasting because they use a Gigapress, named and built by Idra Group. So it's an Italian name, maybe it sounds more mature in that language :)
If the suspension pickups were part of the gigacast parts, I agree that would be a significant problem for repair. But I don't think they are, I think the cars run separate subframes. Probably makes them easier to assemble. The gigapress cars are basically just a unibody that's two pieces instead of a bunch, and those individual pieces aren't ones you'd be replacing.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
The illustrations definitely help clear things up. A replaceable subframe definitely goes a long way to stay out of trouble.
tuna55 said:SV reX said:About a year and a half ago I got a great deal on a rental from Hertz renting a Tesla at Newark airport. They had just started their partnership with Tesla and were offering great deals for people to try them. It was cheaper than the economy cars, and they said there was no fuel charge if I brought it back with at least 10% charge remaining. Sweet!
Fast forward to about 2 months ago. I was at the same airport wanting to rent the same car. They were now the most expensive rentals available, and they required them to be returned with a full charge. (That's not easy to do with a rental in central NJ). They had about 30 on the lot, and NONE of them had any charge in them. I ended up switching to gas.
I spent a little time talking with the lot manager about them. They found the charging time to be impossible to manage in a rental fleet. The cars had to sit still for so long charging that it messed up their entire queue.
I don't think EVs make great rental cars.
I've rented EVs the last three trips to Chicago, and will rent them exclusively every time if they are available.
Based on this, I'm picking up a Polestar from O'Hare for a weekend a few weeks from now to see how much I like road tripping it.
Hertz has a handful of Model 3 Base for under $20k now
Hertz model 3’s sorted price low to high
and if you get a MY22 it's eligible for up to $4k tax credit, subject to IRS rules of course.
For me personally, a car rented during a business trip is just a tool to get me from here to there and isn't something I want to learn how to use. If I already had a Tesla at home, renting one wouldn't be a big deal, but I still wouldn't because I'd want to try something different "just because."
In reply to kb58 :
I had one as a rental a few times and found them very intuitive to use. I'd be very tempted if the car didn't come with all the Tesla stuff...I love EVs
kb58 said:For me personally, a car rented during a business trip is just a tool to get me from here to there and isn't something I want to learn how to use. If I already had a Tesla at home, renting one wouldn't be a big deal, but I still wouldn't because I'd want to try something different "just because."
I'm exact opposite, I try to either rent something I'm interested in potentially buying and treat it like an extended test drive, or rent something I'd never buy, but looks fun to try for a few days. I enjoy finding all the buttons and features.
*One glaring exception, I took my 3 year old daughter with me to look at/put a deposit on a boat. She insisted we pick based on color. Walked past so many cool cars so we could get to our bright red 3 year old RDX. I abhor crossovers. But that's what we cruised the streets of Clearwater in for a few days.
alfadriver said:ddavidv said:It stops about there. You go in any deeper, and the price escalates to silly pretty quickly. Plus, Tesla requires shops to be 'Tesla certified' or they won't sell you parts, so of course the hourly labor rate is at least half again as much as a normal brand. Lots of line item additional charges for plugging the thing in and going through the Tesla electronic 'toolbox'. But why care? Insurance will just pay for it!
How is that legal? There are a ton of laws that protect the independent repair shops for cars, as far as I know.
I don't know about legality but that practice isn't uncommon. I know Audi sells certain parts to only certain people. Ever since their chassis' became aluminum only shops that have passed Audi welding certification can buy the weld-in structural pieces.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:Hertz has a handful of Model 3 Base for under $20k now
Hertz model 3’s sorted price low to high
and if you get a MY22 it's eligible for up to $4k tax credit, subject to IRS rules of course.
Every time I've looked at what Hertz is selling, I've been able to find better deals elsewhere.
Autotrader shows a few tax-credit eligible Model 3s with 50-60k miles well under $18k. That's fewer miles and less money than what Hertz is trying to unload.
How long before "Free Tesla body" threads start replacing "Free Europa body" threads?
iansane said:alfadriver said:ddavidv said:It stops about there. You go in any deeper, and the price escalates to silly pretty quickly. Plus, Tesla requires shops to be 'Tesla certified' or they won't sell you parts, so of course the hourly labor rate is at least half again as much as a normal brand. Lots of line item additional charges for plugging the thing in and going through the Tesla electronic 'toolbox'. But why care? Insurance will just pay for it!
How is that legal? There are a ton of laws that protect the independent repair shops for cars, as far as I know.
I don't know about legality but that practice isn't uncommon. I know Audi sells certain parts to only certain people. Ever since their chassis' became aluminum only shops that have passed Audi welding certification can buy the weld-in structural pieces.
From a safety standpoint, that makes sense. If you are going to repair a chassis, you should at least know how to do it. But other ways to prevent small shops from repairing other things that are more simple doesn't.
Unless Telsa knows that people will pay them through the nose to repiar their cars.
In reply to alfadriver :
Again, this is a legend that needs confirmation. There are a bunch of parts you can buy over the counter - even things like a new modem for the charging system. Tesla will sell you parts, but not ALL parts. Look at the parts catalog, you'll see exactly what's restricted. It's almost all related to the high voltage battery.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said:Every car needs a rental mode.
Even the gear shifters in a lot of newer cars are different for no good reason. I blame Toyota -- 99% of cars had a chunk-chunk-chunk PRNDL shifter until the Prius came along, and now everyone is different just for different's sake. Dumb.
Chrysler made all sorts of pushbutton shifters for a while. Google it and be amazed and possibly horrified.
You slide the lever on the left to get Park.
I just spent a week with a Hertz model Y..... It was annoying-I shifted in my seat while driving 40 mph and accidentally pressed the throttle down an extra inch-it accelerated so hard it smacked my head into the headrest. 12 second crossover and its not even the performance version 
In reply to MrJoshua :
It is possible to dial down the throttle sensitivity, there's a setting called "chill" :) Kinda like the opposite of the Sport button on our E39. But it's not front and center.
The Sport button on the BMW is one of 40 buttons (I counted, there are also two multipurpose knobs) in the center console so you kinda have to know it's there, and the single label of "Sport" doesn't really tell you what it does. But hey, button!
Keith Tanner said:In reply to MrJoshua :
It is possible to dial down the throttle sensitivity, there's a setting called "chill" :) Kinda like the opposite of the Sport button on our E39. But it's not front and center.
The Sport button on the BMW is one of 40 buttons (I counted, there are also two multipurpose knobs) in the center console so you kinda have to know it's there, and the single label of "Sport" doesn't really tell you what it does. But hey, button!
Rode with my dad tonight in his 09 Tahoe. He's probably put 1,000 miles on it in the three-ish years he's owned it. Not a car guy. He is a short guy, but his seating position tonight looked close to the wheel, even for him.
I asked if he knew the pedals were adjustable. "What?" I pressed the button. "The hell was that? Pedals moved closer."
Yessir, they did.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to MrJoshua :
It is possible to dial down the throttle sensitivity, there's a setting called "chill" :) Kinda like the opposite of the Sport button on our E39. But it's not front and center.
The Sport button on the BMW is one of 40 buttons (I counted, there are also two multipurpose knobs) in the center console so you kinda have to know it's there, and the single label of "Sport" doesn't really tell you what it does. But hey, button!
Lol-I adapted pretty quickly to having to be more purposeful with my throttle position after that. I did end up spending a fair amount of time in "Chill" mode and it definitely took out the throttle sensitivity. It felt like a setting right between "chill" and "normal" would have been perfect.
It strikes me that a lot of the things that people complain about are the things that become second nature after you've owned the car for about a week. Shifters, etc.
I've rented a bunch of Model 3's and I mostly liked them. The one thing I couldn't get past was wind noise around the driver's side window, which was consistent in all of my rentals. It may be that I notice it more because there's no motor noise drowning it out, or it may be something fundamental to the design. Either way it drove me crazy.
In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :
Tesla went to double pane window glass at some point to improve noise isolation, apparantly it's a big help. I don't know if the rentals have it. I know the noise you mean - it's getting a bit worse in our car, which makes me wonder if the window drop mechanism is getting out of alignment because it sounds like a window that isn't quite sealing. I might look into it.
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