Honda to "ditch" conventional automatics

An online news source is reporting today that Honda is about finished work on a new family of engines and transmissions. FINALLY, nearly every Honda will be equipped with an engine sporting DOHC, be it a 4 cylinder or V6. Engines will be phased in over the next few years. Some cars "may" get the engines as part of a mid-model "freshening" while other models "may" get the engines when a brand new model debuts. A SOHC 4 cylinder will remain for any possible "value-priced" model(s), though it is thought that the Fit will get a twin cam engine in 2013 or 2014.

Honda is also finishing work on a diesel engine that will displace 1.6 liters but have the power output of it's current 2.2. diesel...which isn't sold in the U.S. No word on whether we will ever get the 2.2. or the 1.6 in the U.S.

What I thought was the big news is that Honda will do away with ALL conventional automatics in it's 4 cylinder cars...in favor of CVTs. So (apparently?) whether you desire a Fit, Civic, or Accord as long as it has a 4 cylinder engine, it will have a CVT. Unlike Nissan, "regular" automatics will NOT be available...unless it is attached to a V6. Honda claims they have pretty much eliminated the "rubber-band" feel (somewhat) inherent in CVTs.

They can't be less reliable than a lot of the Honda automatics hung behind the more powerful engines, either, right?

I truly expect that automatic will become standard soon (very soon.) What I wonder is if manufacturers will see a profit center from the idea of charging extra for a manual trans. I would pay the extra. I suspect they will just do away with manual all together.

In reply to integraguy:

Do you have any link to that news? I know a few people around here would be interested. Sort of.

No shock on the 1.6 lack of US, but I wonder how long it will last, or how many will be sold that meets Euro VI rules in '14.

CVT.. hmm. Interesting choice. Very interesting.

jrw1621 wrote: I truly expect that automatic will become standard soon (very soon.) What I wonder is if manufacturers will see a profit center from the idea of charging extra for a manual trans. I would pay the extra. I suspect they will just do away with manual all together.

Profit center? Doubtful. Cost to cover the lack of volume would be more like it. But I do see (which is just an opinion) a shift to a cost to add an available manual. Just not enough sales out there.

In reply to integraguy:

I will not buy a vehicle with a CVT, evar.

jrw1621 wrote: I truly expect that automatic will become standard soon (very soon.)

I'm not sure how you can look at the current new car market and say it's not that way already.

jrw1621 wrote: I suspect they will just do away with manual all together.

I don't think this will ever happen

Everywhere else in the world they drive manuals, so I think they'll be around a while.

I can see manuals dying in the US on everything but base model subcompacts and some sports cars, with many sports cars/sporty cars moving to flappy paddle shifters only if you want to row your own. I remember reading somewhere that a BMW engineer admitted the only reason BMW still has a manual option for their M-series cars is because Americans still want them. If that engineer had it his way, then all BMW M cars would have DCTs only by now.

And here i was recently thinking how glad i was that the OEMs seemed to get getting over their CVT kick.

News flash: 6spd auto > CVT.

I thought CVTs were something that would go away when manufacturers finally did all the transmission design work they had been putting off to get 6spd autos in all their models. I honestly think the car market can stand to have 6spds in most cars for the next 10+yrs at LEAST.

Honda never has used "conventional" automatics. The just drove like them. Also, Nissan only offers a regular auto alongside the CVT on Versa models. Altima, Sentra, Cube, Murano, Maxima, Juke, Quest and Rogue are all CVT-only when a manual is not offered.

Got a link to this online source?

mr2peak wrote:

jrw1621 wrote: I suspect they will just do away with manual all together.

I don't think this will ever happen

Some of the CVTs are getting better gas mileage than the manuals. The gubment could mandate it.

Vigo wrote: News flash: 6spd auto > CVT.

How so?

bravenrace wrote: In reply to integraguy: I will not buy a vehicle with a CVT, evar.

What's that sound? Oh yeah, it's the sound of you eating your words. evar is a long time.

I personally have no issues with the concept of the CVT, I actually kinda like it. What I don't like is the making it work like a traditional automatic.

From a performance standpoint, thinking autocross here, an engine held to a steady, power making rpm while the gearing moves around to give me the go I want when I want it sounds nice.

For an actual news article, go to www.news.google.com and search Honda engines transmissions.

Or read their press release:

http://world.honda.com/news/2011/4111130Earth-Dreams-Technology/index.html

I have not met a CVT that I like. Curious to see if they really eliminated the "rubber band" feel.

In theory they are optimal for peak power and/or peak MPG. Reality is that it feels like a gutless wonder that is constantly slipping.

I understand CVTs so do not get flipped out over how they work but man they do feel weird at first. A LOT of the Jeep customers who bought Compasses and Patriots with CVTs complained like crazy, I know of two buybacks over that whole issue.

Cone_Junky wrote: I have not met a CVT that I like.

How much of that is due to tuning for application? I mean, isn't every CVT out there designed for fuel economy over all else?

Snowmobiles use CVTs, and they've got great performance; punch it and they just go.

I'd imagine that with proper tuning, an automotive CVT could do the exact same thing.

CVTs or automatics? Who cares they both suck.

ReverendDexter wrote:

Cone_Junky wrote: I have not met a CVT that I like.

How much of that is due to tuning for application? I mean, isn't every CVT out there designed for fuel economy over all else? Snowmobiles use CVTs, and they've got great performance; punch it and they just go. I'd imagine that with proper tuning, an automotive CVT could do the exact same thing.

Snowmobiles and cars using their engines are my only experience with CVTs and I like them.

Arn't CVT's the hot setup for the Amod cars?

The enginerd in me loves the idea of the CVT but the driver in me loves the feel and control of the manual.

I've noticed basically every new automatic subaru is a CVT as well.

How so?

I have not met a CVT that I like.

Because conventional autos drive better. One thing that ive always hated about CVTs is that they dont really have a low enough lowest ratio to suit a lot of small motors. It works ok on a vq35 but on something with no torque, the lower gearing of a 6spd auto is a major boon.

Honda never has used "conventional" automatics. The just drove like them.

I actually think honda was a bit ahead of their time on this. I honestly think that the planetary-gearset-based auto should go away in favor of automatically shifted manuals, which is SORT OF what honda has had for a long time now.

Ive rebuilt auto trannies before. Here's the basic fact of the matter: Manuals are, by and large, simpler, more durable, lighter, less parasitic/lossy, and cheaper to build and operate. Putting automatic controls on what is mechanically a 'manual trans' is the obvious solution, and this is exactly what a lot of the big dogs do. Hell, the dual-clutch stuff takes it to the next level. And i dont think there's a single major manufacturer that DOESNT have the resources to build one.

So, imo the only reason EVERY company isn't going to automated manuals for its entire lineup is because joe and jill blow dont know enough about transmissions to ask for it.

But a lot of people do know enough about how stuff should feel to hate CVTs.

The enginerd in me loves the idea of the CVT but the driver in me loves the feel and control of the manual.

I like the idea of a CVT, but the kind of CVT i like is what toyota has in the Prius. Beautifully simple and versatile, imo.

http://eahart.com/prius/psd/