Chevy Volts had MSRPs in the low-$30's, yet, 2014 models with fewer than 30k miles can easily be found less than $15k. That's Mercedes depreciation. What gives? Are these nightmares once the warranties run out, or is there simply a glut of them on the market? I really like the quirky styling and 4-bucket layout. How are they in colder climates?
I'm currently shopping 2013-15 volts. Should be picking one up this week. They're about 14k here (southern California) with less than 40k miles.
Short answer is they're good. Batteries holding up well so far and build quality is great.
Long answer is the depreciation isn't that much when you take out the $7500 federal rebate new buyers got. About on par with most $30k cars really.
For horrible depreciation check out the Battery only EVs. A 3 year old loaded Leaf with 20k miles can be had for less than $8,000.
We picked up a 2013 Volt last spring and the car has been great for us thus far. I think it was $13.5k with 34k miles on the clock. The girlfriend and I both have a short commute so most of the miles are pure electric. In the summer range is 40-45 miles on a full charge, but in winter 20-25. With a set of fresh winter tires the car has had no trouble in the snow we get from Lake Erie. On longer trips we average about 40mpg. It seats four comfortably if you aren't too tall for the back seat, but fitting luggage for four would be tight. I really like the regenerative braking and trying to keep the engine from firing up. Its quick off the line with the electric motor but I feel like there is some code that prevents it from continuing to accelerate hard, probably battery discharge limitations. We cross shopped it with a Focus titanium and came away surprised.
What's funny about current 1g Volt prices is that they are just now getting BACK to the cheap prices they were already at 2 years ago when tons of them came off lease at once and flooded the market. They were the same price back when i was seriously shopping them in late '15.
In reply to Vigo: Yeah, I expected the Gen2 Volts to impact the pricing of the Gen1s more, but I'm not sure that's really happened.
Work at a GM dealership. We don't sell many (Like 10 total since they've came out) but we never see them come back for anything other than basic maintenance. All the special tools we bought just sit gathering dust. Which brings to an interesting point: dealerships could opt out of the Volt program and not have anyone certified on Volts, in which case they couldn't sell them or work on them. So if you buy one, check to make sure your local GM dealership opted onto the Volt program, in case you need any warranty or specialized work done.
The only problem with the volt is the two back seats instead of a bench. I'd have one but a non fun car that dosent fit the whole family dosent work.
A very good friend has one with over 100k miles on it and it's been treating him very well. I think it's just typical depreciation once you factor in what people actually paid for them, net of tax credits.
Mine is holding up great (2014, bought new). I was thinking of trading it in on a Gen 2 or a Bolt, but they installed a charging station (4 actually) at my work, and now I don't use any gas at all for my 60 mile round trip commute. Previously I was getting about 40-50 miles on the battery then using gas. I only use gas now for longer trips (and we use the Suburban for family trips, so there aren't many of those). Filled up for the first time in almost 3 months today, 2700 miles on 9 gallons, and half of my charging done on someone else's dime.
Only had one issue in 45k miles, and ironically it was with the internal combustion engine. Needed a throttle body replaced at 42k miles (only 17k miles on the ICE at that point), but was under warranty (part of the emission system per GM). The car is extremely easy on brakes and tires too, though the standard LRR tires seem to be a bit thin, I have had 3 flats in the last year. To put that in perspective, I have only had 4 flats (2 on trailers) in the previous 15 years on all of my other vehicles.
I think others are spot on with the "depreciation" explanation. When all was said and done, ours was only about $21k out the door (including tax, tag, title, etc.) after the federal and state rebates. When you factor that in, the current prices are in line with the depreciation similarly priced cars are seeing. I think you also have a little hit because the general population is also worried about the complexity and costs of repairing the electrical systems if there is an issue, but GM was very conservative when it comes to battery depth of charge usage and thermal management, so the issues seen on early Leafs is not a concern on the Volt.
bastomatic wrote: For horrible depreciation check out the Battery only EVs. A 3 year old loaded Leaf with 20k miles can be had for less than $8,000.
Do others depreciate as much as the Leaf? I've considered these several times, but the potentially catastrophic battery failure scares me off. Most EVs have little battery loss over time, and many Hybrids (Prius) are absolute tanks in this regard, but the Leaf seems to be an exception.
Last I looked people were starting to experience reduced range well before 100k miles and anticipated needing to replace the pack by 120k to the tune of something crazy like $5000. I have searched around to see if this is just crazy speculation, but can't find any real battery costs or good stories about a high mileage Leaf. A car that will essentially total itself at 120k miles isn't a car I want to own :(
I hope to see some really high mileage examples that are performing better and turn the tide. I'd love to snag an EV.
I wonder what Cadillac ELR prices are doing. Seems like they'd be depreciating like a rock, seeing as how GM could not move the things and dealerships (ours included) were refusing to let them unload them off the truck and they sold slower than even the Viper. Honestly, one of the best applications of Caddy "Art & Science" styling but who can afford a $90,000 2-door Volt? Future unicorn status here, and I can see this board hunting them down 20 years from now
NickD wrote: I wonder what Cadillac ELR prices are doing. Seems like they'd be depreciating like a rock, seeing as how GM could not move the things and dealerships (ours included) were refusing to let them unload them off the truck and they sold slower than even the Viper. Honestly, one of the best applications of Caddy "Art & Science" styling but who can afford a $90,000 2-door Volt? Future unicorn status here, and I can see this board hunting them down 20 years from now
The dealership here that I bought my Volt at was selling ELRs for $50-60k brand new, and selling every one they could get. At that price, people did think they were worth the money for a sportier looking Volt that had much better materials.
Some dealerships are still trying to get $75-80k for leftover 2014s, but they're gonna sit on them forever at that price. You can pick up certified 2014s for as low as $30k with 10-15k miles on them.
In reply to ProDarwin:
Used Fiat 500e's seem pretty cheap
But if you're concerned about quality of used electric cars in general, I'm not sure adding a FIAT badge would help to alleviate those concerns.
In reply to STM317:
Isn't that the car that Sergio Marchionne begged the public not to buy? Yeah, that's a good sign
I've seen the Focus electric for well under $10k (as low as $7k in some areas). Nice driving car, though a lower range (85 miles) and a compromised hatch area for battery placement.
In reply to NickD:
Yeah. But he did that because they were losing money on every one they sold. It was sold on the West Coast only in order to help their CAFE numbers or something. IF it's any consolation, it sounds like almost all of the important "electric" stuff in the 500e was developed by Bosch instead of FIAT.
ProDarwin wrote: Last I looked people were starting to experience reduced range well before 100k miles and anticipated needing to replace the pack by 120k to the tune of something crazy like $5000. I have searched around to see if this is just crazy speculation, but can't find any real battery costs or *good* stories about a high mileage Leaf. A car that will essentially total itself at 120k miles isn't a car I want to own :(
This is about on par with a typical non-maintained car that eats a trans or drops the timing chain at about that time. Maybe a couple thousand more than the transmission scenario, but you also save a lot of money over those miles by running on electricity instead of liquid fuels, so you're still money ahead.
Knurled wrote: This is about on par with a typical non-maintained car that eats a trans or drops the timing chain at about that time. Maybe a couple thousand more than the transmission scenario, but you also save a lot of money over those miles by running on electricity instead of liquid fuels, so you're still money ahead.
Yes, but those scenarios also sound terrible so I avoid them.
I wouldn't compare the Leaf to a car that loses its timing chain...more like a car where you have to buy fuel in giant lump sums, and the next payment could be due soon.
In reply to GameboyRMH:
I know that for the Leaf, battery chemistry changed in mid 2013 for the better and has far superior longevity. Prior to that hot climates suffered particularly severe capacity loss.
I have full battery health on my 2013 after 30k miles.
I know Nissan charges $6500 for a new replacement battery pack out of warranty. I bet battery specialists pop up to refurbished the packs at some point but I'm not aware of any at this time.
I look at it as a very nicely appointed city car that costs me next to nothing to buy and own. One day the battery will die and I won't fix it but that should be many years away.
I feel like we're going to make a huge leap in battery replacement options in the next few years. Someone is going to capitalize on it, it's the future.
In reply to yupididit:
Already been done. A company developed a way to effectively remanufacture hybrid battery packs. They got bought up by Dorman, which is why you can buy reman hybrid batteries for $1800-2000 or so.
In reply to Knurled:
Those prices make me more concerned actually. If a reman 1.3 kWh Prius NiMH pack costs $2000, that doesn't bode well for a 24 kWh Li-ion Leaf pack.
In reply to bastomatic:
Why so? Much of the expense in a battery pack is in parts that get re-used.
Put another way, using just the data in this thread: If a NEW 24kwh battery is $5k, but a REMAN 1.3kwh battery pack is $2k, how expensive is the new 1.3kwh battery pack assuming an upper bound of $5k and a lower bound of $2k?
Implied in that: If remanufacturing something costs more than new, you go new and remanufacturing doesn't happen.
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