How bad are E36 BMWs really?

Man, you are doing a hell of a job to disprove the notion that a-holes all drive BMWs .

Does it look like I care? Seriously? Want a bimmer, go for it. Spend your money however you want. Just don't expect me to fawn all over it thinking it's god's gift to the automotive world.

Seriously, just go ahead and call me what you will. I drive hyundai's and GM's. All of which are loathed here. I think my skins tough enough to handle whatever it is you have.

It's just like the people that are ignoring the new domestic cars and telling everyone how "perfect" yoduh and honduh are even though their quality has been slipping year after year, but their prices keep rising. They buy because they're told it's "the best". Brand shoppers. I'm not one of them.

Bobzilla wrote: Define "cooler"? Driving a "me too" german mobile to fill the missing status in your life? That's not how I define "cool". I define cool as doing somethign different. Something new and not following the footsteps of every other tom, dick and harry. I carry 4 people in decent comfort, have ice cold ac, nice stereo and comfy seats on a soft enough suspension that I can handle 12 hour stints and not break the back. Why did I build the Swift? Because a double duty auto-x and family mobile has too many compromises. It's too heavy for the class I'm in and well, c'mon.... how cool is a metro with a DOHC 4-cyl and 4-wheel discs?

I dunno.... i see a lot more Hyundais than i do E36 M3s... Or even E36s in general. In my area? I see as many Hyundais as i do BMW. PERIOD.

Cool is merely an appeal factor to the owner. I couldn't give two berkeleys about whether or not the person on the sidewalk thinks my car is cool. I mean... hell, i drive a Celica. Everybody probably thinks i like dudes. But I think it's a cool car.

What your describing as your pluses to your car, are not things that EVERYBODY wants. I never want more than two people in my car. That's why i no longer have rear seats. Air conditioning? I've got windows and a sunroof (which finally works now WEEEE!!!) Comfy seats? Check. Soft suspension? Hate'em.

In today's world actually DOING SOMETHING with your car rather than just using it as an appliance is doing something different. Anyone with a BMW that actually races it, as far as i'm concerned, is doing something different.

BMWs seem to do ok in the classes they're lumped in.....

And there you go.... your "Metro" is cool as hell. Not everyone agrees with that. Most people here do. And coincidentally enough, they're the same people that think the BMW is cool as hell.

Wait... you don't like dudes?

Bobzilla wrote: I've been nice. But the generalities are hilarious. "Most of the car is ready for teh scrap yard before the bushings need replaced".. C'mon. pull your head from that dark smelly hole you call your anus and welcome to reality. Come talk to me when you buy your BMW new, auto-x it for 2 seasons, DD and get 35mpg and have a total expense of $15k wrapped up in it. Wanna talk about driver enjoyment? My first auto-x on my new suspension I smoked a 325i. That's enjoyment. BMW's are more expensive to maintain PERIOD. That's expected. The question then becomes is it worth the extra cost in driving satisfaction/ownership. For me it's laughable when I cna build a better car for less. It just doesn't have "the name". I personally consider Grassroots to be a non-name brand shopper's category. I guess I was wrong. The BMW leg-humping is thick in here. Am I at Car & Driver?

Bobzilla, I've built daily drivers that have had a $500 total investment. I've built $1000 autocross cars that "smoked" expensive new machinery. But I'm not gonna be a retard about what is actually engineered better.

My 167k mile BMW is factually built better than an appliance car because it does the job of being an appliance, the job of being a luxury car AND the job of being a driver's car. And considering I got $70-80k worth of automobile for $7500 two years ago, I'd call that pretty berkleying grassroots. And most E30s and E36s on this forum are pretty damn grassroots, too.

Yeah, it costs more than a 10 year old economy car, but it's NOT an economy car. And since it costs less than the most basic NEW economy car, then again, that's pretty damn grassroots.

BMW leg humping? I've owned well over a hundred cars in the last 30 years, from Pintos to Porsches. I like cars that I like, regardless of the badge. Most of them came to me with over 100k miles on them. I know what ALL sorts of cars need when they get to that age. My 7 has been about average for the types of things it needs at that age, and for the cost to keep it. YOU'RE the one harping about the berkleying BADGE and can't get PAST the badge, thinking the only reason someone would want one of these cars is for status, That proves you to be a narrowminded prick of the highest order.

I've BUILT cool, in a $700 '62 Falcon 4 door, slammed, in tangerine and white primer...

And $1000 custom VW bugs:

I've built fast, with a cheap V8 RX7 that went like stink:

I've built oddball, like rebuilding a rusty hulk into this for $2500:

Hell, I drove a $1 '81 Chevy Citation V6 from 200k miles to 323k miles (yeah, I've had a lot of GMs, too). I really liked my '89 Swift GTI that I bought at auction for $800 and had a blast autocrossing.

I don't buy or build by brand. I buy and build what I like. And my BMW isn't stock. it's fun. it's fast. it's comfortable. it's stylish. AND IT'S CHEAP.

Now, I'm gonna go out and work on my '63 Mercury Comet convertible project some more. You know, the one that's getting a Lexus V8 and 5 speed manual trans. 'cause I'm a badge whore that likes being like everyone else...

Chris, that was one of my favorite responses to a forum troll ever .

Chris_V wrote: I've built oddball, like rebuilding a rusty hulk into this for $2500:

I would leg-hump THAT.

Josh wrote: Chris, that was one of my favorite responses to a forum troll ever .

He's got it down pat.. In my time on these forums I've seen it a few times and its still impressive.

Josh wrote: Chris, that was one of my favorite responses to a forum troll ever .

Boy... you got me! I'm a troll. Apparently not drooling over every bmw makes you a "troll" here. Good to see we can share opinions here freely.

Bobzilla wrote: Wait... you don't like dudes?

Oh i got nothing against dudes.... i even like some of them.

But do i LIKE them? Not so much. You can try to convert me in your cute little metro, though.

Bobzilla,

Have you ever driven a BMW on track? Have you ever driven an E36 M3 either on the road or on track? If not, try it, you may find that you can look past the badge and enjoy the cars for what they are.

But what the hell do I know, I'm just a status hound. Excuse me while I go leg-hump my AMC Eagle.

Eagles are da bomb! No, literally! lol

Yes, I've driven me some 3-series. Autos and manuals, none were M's. None on the track. In all honesty, I don't get the uber fascination with them. But hey, what do I know. I'm just a troll....

Bobzilla wrote: If that was a GM, you'd still be screaming about how big of a pile of poo that car was and how you'd never buy another domestic again, stupid overpaid union people churning out crap......

I work For GM , I Own a Turbo Corvair, V8 Fiero and 79 cadillac. Love all of them

I was being completley sarcastic in my comments. At the same time I owned this I also had a 2002 Mini Cooper.

It's list of problems was longer...

Between a 87 Corvette and an 06 997S porsche which one needed a new motor at 5000 miles.. Which one has only ever needed an alternator?

You are quick to assume I don't have GM love!

People's mind sets are all out of wack when it comes to High end cars. High end cars come with high end problems. I sold the BMW and went back to driving Subaru company cars (I worked for them at the time)

Truth be told , I had more confidence in driving a 94 Caprice wagon with 250,000 miles on it on long trips, then I ever did driving the BMW.

Loved the M3 , it was smooth, handeled well and fit and finish was 2nd to none... don't get that confused with quality... I worked in a dealer group that owns the largest BMW dealership in Canada... the perception of quality is held primarly by those who have never had one.

As for the BMW on a track being superior.... Maybe compared to cars of the same vintage, but I can tell you from experience that My old mans Legacy GT with Cobb bars would out accelerate and corner the M3 with ease.

Sorry if it stomps on anyones toes.. Old tech is Old tech.. The C4 vette seems to be the only car in our stable that seems to defy that principal!

AutoXR wrote: Loved the M3 , it was smooth, handeled well and fit and finish was 2nd to none... don't get that confused with quality... I worked in a dealer group that owns the largest BMW dealership in Canada... the perception of quality is held primarly by those who have never had one.

Well said. :)

AutoXR wrote: As for the BMW on a track being superior.... Maybe compared to cars of the same vintage, but I can tell you from experience that My old mans Legacy GT with Cobb bars would out accelerate and corner the M3 with ease. Sorry if it stomps on anyones toes.. Old tech is Old tech.. The C4 vette seems to be the only car in our stable that seems to defy that principal!

I'll be the first to say that there are MANY faster cars than the M3, but to me the M3 nailed the balance between price/performance/practicality/comfort.
Dynamically, it simply feels incredible. I paid under $5k, put another 1k into it, and have been offered more than my total investment a number of times since I bought it in December. I fully expect it to be "fussier" than a corolla, and I'm ok with it. Depreciation cost is essentially nil on a well maintained example.

Other people pay to play golf......

Nathan

njansenv wrote:

AutoXR wrote: As for the BMW on a track being superior.... Maybe compared to cars of the same vintage, but I can tell you from experience that My old mans Legacy GT with Cobb bars would out accelerate and corner the M3 with ease. Sorry if it stomps on anyones toes.. Old tech is Old tech.. The C4 vette seems to be the only car in our stable that seems to defy that principal!

I'll be the first to say that there are MANY faster cars than the M3, but to me the M3 nailed the balance between price/performance/practicality/comfort. Dynamically, it simply feels incredible. I paid under $5k, put another 1k into it, and have been offered more than my total investment a number of times since I bought it in December. I fully expect it to be "fussier" than a corolla, and I'm ok with it. Depreciation cost is essentially nil on a well maintained example. Other people pay to play golf...... Nathan

The question is what is your experience based on? What other cars?

I won't argue resale. I drove mine for a year and sold it for what I paid (Not including repairs)

As far as price/ performance and practicality, a Stock WRX wagon beats it in every category...

I do have a serious question for folks. Would you suggest a E36 or newer BMW for me? Its gotta be cheap $10k or less. I will be moving through a rotational program at work in the next 2 years. This means my tools are going into storage and my family will be living out of short term apartments, moving every 8 months. Since the program is demanding and I'll have a new baby soon, I won't have time to do work any work myself some time. I'll be looking to buy in about a year.

I like a 5 series or 3 series wagon but what do you think?

AutoXR wrote: The question is what is your experience based on? What other cars? I won't argue resale. I drove mine for a year and sold it for what I paid (Not including repairs) As far as price/ performance and practicality, a Stock WRX wagon beats it in every category...

This is what I have been saying. It all depends on what you expect/consider as "normal".

I can think of a couple dozen cars I'd rather have over a bmw.

ignorant wrote: I do have a serious question for folks. Would you suggest a E36 or newer BMW for me? Its gotta be cheap $10k or less. I will be moving through a rotational program at work in the next 2 years. This means my tools are going into storage and my family will be living out of short term apartments, moving every 8 months. Since the program is demanding and I'll have a new baby soon, I won't have time to do work any work myself some time. I'll be looking to buy in about a year. I like a 5 series or 3 series wagon but what do you think?

If I'm looking for a wagon, I'd be wise to go for the Subaru offerings. Plus, who knows when I'll be rotated into some snowy climate and the AWD would come in handy.

.....mindberkeley....

ignorant wrote:

ignorant wrote: I do have a serious question for folks. Would you suggest a E36 or newer BMW for me? Its gotta be cheap $10k or less. I will be moving through a rotational program at work in the next 2 years. This means my tools are going into storage and my family will be living out of short term apartments, moving every 8 months. Since the program is demanding and I'll have a new baby soon, I won't have time to do work any work myself some time. I'll be looking to buy in about a year. I like a 5 series or 3 series wagon but what do you think?

If I'm looking for a wagon, I'd be wise to go for the Subaru offerings. Plus, who knows when I'll be rotated into some snowy climate and the AWD would come in handy.

You're right.. Plus a subaru would attract lesbians and they are h0t

ignorant wrote:

ignorant wrote:

ignorant wrote: I do have a serious question for folks. Would you suggest a E36 or newer BMW for me? Its gotta be cheap $10k or less. I will be moving through a rotational program at work in the next 2 years. This means my tools are going into storage and my family will be living out of short term apartments, moving every 8 months. Since the program is demanding and I'll have a new baby soon, I won't have time to do work any work myself some time. I'll be looking to buy in about a year. I like a 5 series or 3 series wagon but what do you think?

If I'm looking for a wagon, I'd be wise to go for the Subaru offerings. Plus, who knows when I'll be rotated into some snowy climate and the AWD would come in handy.

You're right.. Plus a subaru would attract lesbians and they are h0t

Subarus are also the choice of greenie lefties everywhere. A perfect match for me.

or a P71

AutoXR wrote:

njansenv wrote:

AutoXR wrote: As for the BMW on a track being superior.... Maybe compared to cars of the same vintage, but I can tell you from experience that My old mans Legacy GT with Cobb bars would out accelerate and corner the M3 with ease. Sorry if it stomps on anyones toes.. Old tech is Old tech.. The C4 vette seems to be the only car in our stable that seems to defy that principal!

I'll be the first to say that there are MANY faster cars than the M3, but to me the M3 nailed the balance between price/performance/practicality/comfort. Dynamically, it simply feels incredible. I paid under $5k, put another 1k into it, and have been offered more than my total investment a number of times since I bought it in December. I fully expect it to be "fussier" than a corolla, and I'm ok with it. Depreciation cost is essentially nil on a well maintained example. Other people pay to play golf...... Nathan

The question is what is your experience based on? What other cars? I won't argue resale. I drove mine for a year and sold it for what I paid (Not including repairs) As far as price/ performance and practicality, a Stock WRX wagon beats it in every category...

My experience is based on owing over a hundred other cars from most manufacturers, over the last 30 years, plus a couple decades of autocrossing in my cars and many, many others.

What I've learned on the track is that I can beat a lot of more expensive, supposedly superior cars in some of the cheap stuff I've put together. BUT, when I drive that supposedly superior stuff, I'm faster yet! I've spent a lot of time and effort on race cars and street performance cars to get them to work better. But the truth is, I've found that these cars work better from the start.

When I got my car at 143k miles, I was amazed that as the speeds rose, and the roads got twisty, it felt smaller and more agile, and was capable of the handling and feel of cars that I had modified specifically for that job, without sacrificing comfort or trying to beat you up. Simply put, without modifying anything, or "dialing it in" it simply worked right. In stock form. That's a better place to build from than trying to force an economy car into the role. Yeah, you can buy a new Legacy GT and put aftermarket parts on it and beat an older M3. I can build a cheap ass Pinto and put aftermarket parts on it and beat that Legacy for vastly less money. So was your dad stupid for buying a Legacy? Did he spend more than he had to because of being a brand whore? Or did he buy it becasue that's what he liked?

As for fit/finish/build quality, one thing that's always impresed me about cars like this is the simple stuff: the feel/sound of the doors closing, for example. This car is more solid at 167k than any American or Japanese car I've ever had at anywhere near this mileage.

Yeah, in some ways, my PT Cruiser was more practical (though it got worse highway mpg), and definitely more reliable. But it also cost almost 3 times as much, and there's no gurantee that at THIS mileage it would be any more reliable.

But the main point is here, no one here bought their BMWs for the badge. All of them like them for tangible reasons. But the people hating on them are doing so PRIMARILY due to the badge, and ascribing motives to those that did buy them, then insulting them for those made up motives. That's not merely "having an opinion" and you don't get to get off without comment in response for making those sorts of statements.