How Bad of an Idea is This (Land Rover content)?

I was recently offered a pretty clean 2002 Land Rover Discovery that, "may need an engine" for $700. I found a junkyard engine for $500. When trying to decide whether or not to buy the Land Rover, I have silly daydreams about putting that junkyard engine in the Landy, then rebuilding the existing "bad" 4.0 and stuffing it in an MGB. That would net me a tow vehicle and a very fast MGB to play with. NADA makes the Land Rover seem like a home run with a$5100 valuation, but NADA doesn't write checks to back up their valuations. Leaving the MGB out of it for now, what do my fellow GRM crazies think?

Doesn't sound like a terrible deal! However NADA tends to be the most exaggerated of all the valuation services in my experience (that $5100 is probably what a dealer would ask assuming the buyer will be negotiating down) and I certainly don't see Discos selling for that much around here. $2-3000 seems to be more typical for anything but the most babied of examples.

As an aside I would want to figure out what exactly is wrong with the 4.0 before getting too invested in the idea of rebuilding. I'm far from an expert on them but I have heard they need a fair amount of machine work and upgrading if you don't want them to fail again in short order, if they are even in rebuildable shape. They were really haphazardly slapped together from the factory, and that also means a junkyard engine may show the same issues.

Overall, cheap/free Land Rovers kind of strike me as similar to cheap/free boats...

In reply to pointofdeparture:

I agree with possibly everything you said. I'd add one more thing: I WANT ONE SO BAD!

It's like a drug, watching that documentary on the Camel Trophy Dicoveries on YouTube I mean.

Hopefully mad_machine will be along soon to talk his disco engine swap adventure. Even doing it the best possible way was a big PITA, and it took a while to get his fully back up to road worthiness.

Running P38 Land Rovers can be had for under $2K here in Mass. My wife's 2000Range Rover HSE was $1K and I picked up a 2002 Landy with a 4.6 as well that was stuffed in the nose for $250 over the summer. The spare 4.6 is at the machine shop along with a 4.0 I had. Its going into one of my TR8s. I recently passed on a nice 2002 Landy with a running parts Landy for $2600. Both had 4.6 engines. Guy ended up scraping the parts truck and is still cruising around town in the other. They have a bad tendency to slip cylinder liners. Replacing the liners is a $2000 job in of itself. Then you get to rebuild after that. Standard rebuild with no overbore using existing pistons runs $1500 to $2000 for the short block alone. Nobody should go looking for a cheap Rover unless you are a hard core Rover guy or you plan on having several parts vehicles. Warning aside, they are nice vehicles except for all the stupid electrical stuff. Yesterday my radio decided to stop working in the Rover as we were running errands and listening to football. If you just want to do a V8 swap in a MGB. Come to the other side of the state and I will give you a Buick or Olds 215. Between the Oldsmobile, Buick, and Rover, there are at least 20 engines out in my garage. Engines are easy. Finding the parts like flywheel, bell housings, front covers, headers, transmission, etc to actually do a swap is the hard part. Not only are things like bell housings expensive, but the people that have them don't want to part with them. Minimum price to get the parts needed for a swap would be $2K.

In reply to HappyAndy:

Have you ever driven one? Roadworthiness might be a lofty goal. Discoveries have what I have experienced to be the vaguest most wandery steering of anything I've ever driven. The International flat bed tow truck I used to drive to pick up repossessions had more direct steering and better directional stability at highwayspeeds

In reply to M030:

Then you never drove a new one or a well maintained one. They were fine new. Probably the steering box. Makes me wish everything had rack and pinion.

So when did they fix the problem of the sleeves slipping? Is it only a problem with one motor? Are the 4.6l motors immune to tgat problem?

In reply to dean1484:

From reading other people's threads on Rover v8s, they never really fixed it, and there is some evidence that the 4.6 has even more problems.

Just to be clear, I have no personal RR/LR experience, I'm just repeating what I've read here and other places. SWMBO wants a Rover, so I read those threads and realize that I can't give in on this one

The different engines have their issues. The BMW powerplant has the same problems as the rest of the bmw v8s, of course.

The 4.0's aren't as bad as the 4.6's for slipping cylinders, and are actually among the better engines. They had cured the head bolt issues that plagued the 3.5's and 3.9's, plus have much better oiling. The 4.6's are the ones to worry about most of time time. As long as you don't badly overheat it you really don't have to worry about slipped liners. My 3.9 had over 150k miles on it when I sold the truck and the liners were never an issue. Head Gaskets yes, due to the previously mentioned torque problems with the head bolts, and the typical Lucas distributor issues with the 3.9 until I swapped in a Mallory Unilite. For 2002 I that'll be the THOR/Motronic injection system, which is OBD-II and will give you much better diagnostics than the hot-wire did, plus eliminate the Lucas distributor. Those Rover V8's either die very early, or run forever.

The engines are very easy to work on, for the most part, typical American V8 layout to all of it. Just that parts availability is an issue, and expensive, unless you spend forever doing cross referencing. A Disco of that vintage doesn't really have any of the nightmare systems that Rover had, so no glaring things to be concerned about. No airbag suspension, no 4.6, Bosche instead of Lucas for the EFI system.

One thing to be prepared for though is if things break, parts are spendy and hard to source sometimes. Dealership prices will make GM/Ford markups seem like a bargain. I remember getting quoted $250 per fuel injector once. Learn to research and cross reference or you'll never be able to keep it running while still paying rent/mortgage.

-Hans

When referring to the 4.0, is that the 96 to 02 years?

In the vast oceans of parking lots I come across in my daily travels, it appears (from my purely empirical data) that Land Rover drivers are the worst parkers in the History of Man. Apparently this has something to do with them driving Land Rovers, so I would recommend, unless you do not value your parking skills, that you repress any and all temptations to purchase, own, or drive one of these cursed vehicles.

Other than that, I have nothing productive to add.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: In the vast oceans of parking lots I come across in my daily travels, it appears (from my purely empirical data) that Land Rover drivers are the worst parkers in the History of Man. Apparently this has something to do with them driving Land Rovers, so I would recommend, unless you do not value your parking skills, that you repress any and all temptations to purchase, own, or drive one of these cursed vehicles. Other than that, I have nothing productive to add.

I don't know, corvette owners seem very adept with taking up 4 parking spots. Maybe its due to their waist line??

In reply to M030:

I see the humor in your comparison of a Landy to a tow truck. Seems that going straight to the tow truck could cut out the middle man.

Every Land Rover I've ever seen parked were centered perfectly in their spot.

Ramp truck drivers must be getting better at their job!

volvoclearinghouse wrote: In the vast oceans of parking lots I come across in my daily travels, it appears (from my purely empirical data) that Land Rover drivers are the worst parkers in the History of Man. Apparently this has something to do with them driving Land Rovers, so I would recommend, unless you do not value your parking skills, that you repress any and all temptations to purchase, own, or drive one of these cursed vehicles. Other than that, I have nothing productive to add.

Its hard to push and steer at the same time. I kid of course but doing Roadside Assistance for Land Rover helped pay for my honeymoon to Disney World.

I heard that the 02-04 are the ones to get due to less problems and they have a two speed t-case. They don't all have a shifter for low range but it's just missing on some years.

I to have always wanted one and they are cheap, but I'm too scared of the cost of ownership.

They are practically free around her on at the auctions. Seems if they have little more than a broken headlight they are totaled and sell for no more than $700.

I berkeleying love my Range Rover of that vintage. I've had it longer than any of my other cars and have never thought of selling it.

Get the Disco.

I bought this Land Rover a couple weeks ago:

Runs great.

HappyAndy wrote: Hopefully mad_machine will be along soon to talk his disco engine swap adventure. Even doing it the best possible way was a big PITA, and it took a while to get his fully back up to road worthiness.

it did. Cost me about 12 grand too when all was said and done. Sadly, I had an indy shop that supposedly specialized in saabs, Volvos, Rovers, and other oddball cars do it because I wanted a quick turn around.

Several months later, I got my disco back. I had a brand new 4.6 longblock put in from Rover's North. The engine itself is good, but some things Rover's North did and then what the mechanic did really screwed me.

Frist from Rovers North. they never tanked the block. I had issues from day one with overheating until I finally backflushed the cooling system using a sumppump and a 5 gallon bucket. What came out of that block looked like black sludge. It cost Rovers North a brand new radiator as it was also clogged with the gunk.

The mechanic was sloppy and I am still finding little half assed things. The oilpan almost fell off due to them not tightening it down, I needed to tighten some of the sparkplugs, and recently found that one of the manifolds has a broken stud where it meets the exhaust system. I also have a stain on the hood that I cannot get out. I will not get into how he practically destroyed the radiator mounts.

He also really bent me over for money. Rover shows that an R&R of the engine is 15 hours (I saw the book) to make it as easy as possible, I also supplied all new hoses, belts, and the radiator. I thought this would allow him to simply rip everything out and not care about the accessories. Grand total in time to R&R the engine: 40 hours billed.

He also "lost" a grand I paid as a payment.

He was not just some random mechanic, he came to me very highly recommended by a family friend. He has kept her Volvo running for years. Now I know why it always runs so terrible

As for the engine, the biggest issue with the 4.0 and 4.6 is the liners. They are simply machined into place. One overheat can drop a liner into the block causing an unrepairable head gasket problem, The Rovers North engine has "tophatted" liners that cannot sink. I think if you can get your hands on some of those, it would be worth rebuilding.

UPDATE: it's a 2004, not 2002, it does have a 4.6 in it and it's got about 140k on the clock. It's bumped and bruised and looks like it lived in a big city. It's cheap, but I don't think I'm going to take on this project

I wish you hadn't started this. Now I'm looking at a 96 that is mechanically fine but cosmetically challenged for cheap. I should be focused on my tj project. Not this.

markwemple wrote: I wish you hadn't started this. Now I'm looking at a 96 that is mechanically fine but cosmetically challenged for cheap. I should be focused on my tj project. Not this.

Don't get me wrong, I was always a fan of Land Rovers (when they worked), but it's a trail of expletives and sorrow to keep them going.

Keep with the TJ. There's a special and happy place in the universe reserved for the AMC straight 6.

-Hans