How bad of an idea is this?

I teach Automotive Technology to underprivileged youth, age 16-24, and they get bored easily. I routinely bring in my own projects to get them interested and moving. My stuff has mostly been a parade of worn out old German stuff, like E30 and E36 BMWs and a few Porsche 944s. They seem to get excited by these projects, but their enthusiasm for projects ebbs and flows and can be hard to predict. The BMWs and 944s excited their enthusiasm because, while not super special cars, they were a welcome change from working on rusty Doge Caravans, Nissan Altimas, Ford Tauruses and the like. Yet, the other instructor brought in a 928 to have the kids build into a track car and, despite a huge burst of initial enthusiasm, a couple months into the project, they hardly seem interested anymore. Enough back story.. I found two AW11 MR2s in a local wrecking yard and I can have the pair of them for $500, including delivery. My students seem to favor Japanese cars, so I thought it might make an engaging project for them. One car has missing t-roofs and no wheels. Interior is trash, engine and trans are present, but condition is unknown. Condition of undercarriage is also unknown but I assume it's terrible from lying on its floorpan in the dirt with no wheels. The other has rust in the floors just ahead of the empty hole where the engine goes. That car is a sunroof/hardtop car and it is also open (sunroof panel missing) and has a gross interior. The plan would be to have the kids first get the car with the engine running, then assess which chassis is better (less rust), and finally have them put all the best parts from both cars onto the better chassis. On the one hand, it would be a colossal project that might teach the kids a lot for very little money. On the other, a decent driver AW11 is only a $2500 or so car, so this large of a disaster can't be worth doing. Yet, $500 for two Aw11s feels so cheap; having a big project that the students are invested in makes my job easier and I'm not doing any of the work, so what is there to lose? Best part: I get to keep the finished product. Opinions?

If you are asking here, you know the answer..... Do it!

On either, you'll need to fill an opening in the roof. I think it will be easier to find one sunroof glass rather than two t-tops.
Also, I believe that the same sunroof was offered in all years of AW11 but t-top was only '87-'89.

Do these kids stick around for more than just a little while? If they do...

My first thought (not being a teacher nor having children) is that you maybe need less of a project. If they lose interest quickly, maybe they are getting frustrated before they have a completed, running vehicle.

I'm thinking something cheap but cool from the 70s/80s; Maverick, Caprice, AMC Hornet, Cadillac... something for $300 that needs a carb rebuild, a cap and rotor, and tires to get it going.

I'm 42, and I get burnt out on basket case projects. I can imagine a 20 year old getting discouraged with a car that is that far gone. Unless it is a car about which they are super-passionate, I can imagine they would lose interest.

I remember desperately wanting my uncle's 66 Bonneville when I was in high school. I finally weaseled it out of his hands in 96 as a basket case and its 20 years later and still not even close to done. But my most recent purchase (ford pickup) was a utility choice, so I wouldn't have bought one that needed a simple brake job. Working on a car about which I'm not passionate is a chore. Its an inconvenience. But working on a 67 LeMans convertible is a reason to get out of bed.

My psychology background would say that (since you can't find a car about which all of them will be passionate), maybe the goal shouldn't be working on a car that they like, rather the goal might be completing the project.

If you take 50 really hungry people to a thai food place, 20% of them will be passionate about the food. The other 80% will just be there to accomplish ingesting of sustenance. In this analogy, maybe you should take them to McDonalds for the first round. Then they can all be happy by completing a meal instead of 80% of them being not interested. Next time, Olive Garden. Then work up to the more complex stuff.

If its a core of kids that stick around, start like a video game. The first level is dirt simple and you learn that red mushrooms make you taller and turtles make you die. Then in level 2 you use those skills to tackle a tougher game. Pretty soon you're saving a princess from a fire-breathing monster in a castle.

If the kids come and go, I think you're kinda stuck with easier projects.

Rust kills enthusiasm.

curtis73 wrote: Do these kids stick around for more than just a little while? If they do... My first thought (not being a teacher nor having children) is that you maybe need less of a project. If they lose interest quickly, maybe they are getting frustrated before they have a completed, running vehicle.

I think Curtis has hit the nail on the head. I can't even keep one 16 y/o on track for a week with a project, even if it's something he'll get to drive when it's finished.

I imagine trying to keep a whole herd of them focused is like herding cats. I give teachers a LOT of credit.

In answer to the original question, though. Yes it's a bad idea, so you should definitely do it!

curtis73 wrote: Do these kids stick around for more than just a little while? If they do... My first thought (not being a teacher nor having children) is that you maybe need less of a project. If they lose interest quickly, maybe they are getting frustrated before they have a completed, running vehicle. I'm thinking something cheap but cool from the 70s/80s; Maverick, Caprice, AMC Hornet, Cadillac... something for $300 that needs a carb rebuild, a cap and rotor, and tires to get it going. I'm 42, and I get burnt out on basket case projects. I can imagine a 20 year old getting discouraged with a car that is that far gone. Unless it is a car about which they are super-passionate, I can imagine they would lose interest. I remember desperately wanting my uncle's 66 Bonneville when I was in high school. I finally weaseled it out of his hands in 96 as a basket case and its 20 years later and still not even close to done. But my most recent purchase (ford pickup) was a utility choice, so I wouldn't have bought one that needed a simple brake job. Working on a car about which I'm not passionate is a chore. Its an inconvenience. But working on a 67 LeMans convertible is a reason to get out of bed. My psychology background would say that (since you can't find a car about which all of them will be passionate), maybe the goal shouldn't be working on a car that they like, rather the goal might be completing the project.

We have a frustrating rolling admission, but most students stay six to nine months. What's tough is that we can't have a linear curriculum because our class is constantly sprinkled with beginners. That said, we get some kids with real, innate mechanical ability who rocket through the program and just as many who will never be even capable of fixing a sandwich. The latter tend to say they've signed up for the program so they can learn to change their own oil or, most frustrating of all, as something to do until their "rap career blows up." The enormous challenge is to engage all of them. Big projects can make sense because there are tasks for every skill level to be done. I don't think these kids would relate to an old American car. They'd tear up an old Civic or Integra, though!

I can completely relate to the stagnant project comment, though. I've had the same 72 VW for 32 years, that hasn't run or been touched in 21 (parked it in '95 and haven't done a thing with it since). I do believe the lie I tell myself that someday I'll get to it. Maybe if my son takes an interest in it...

Don't go in Thinking "Hey I get A car Out of the Deal". I don't know your Age But Kids Pick Up on those kind of Vibes. Make it a prize to a deserveing Student, and don't make it about just their Grades but Enthuesiam as well, and let them Vote on the Winner. Alway's better to start with a running Car.

In reply to GTXVette:

I meant the "I get to keep the car" thing as a joke. I wouldn't start a project like this for that reason. My purpose in even considering this absurd project really is to help get the beginner students involved and to challenge the more advanced ones. It's never been about owning the car at the end. I think I'm going to pass, though, unless I can get both cars donated to the program. The real benefit I would derive is that the more engaged my students are, the easier my job is. I'd love to make a project car a prize to a dedicated student, but it's strictly against the rules set forth by my employer. Maybe somebody here has an old Civic, Integra or Datsun they want to donate for a big tax write-off?

M030 wrote: We have a frustrating rolling admission, but most students stay six to nine months. What's tough is that we can't have a linear curriculum because our class is constantly sprinkled with beginners. That said, we get some kids with real, innate mechanical ability who rocket through the program and just as many who will never be even capable of fixing a sandwich. The latter tend to say they've signed up for the program so they can learn to change their own oil or, most frustrating of all, as something to do until their "rap career blows up." The enormous challenge is to engage all of them. Big projects can make sense because there are tasks for every skill level to be done. I don't think these kids would relate to an old American car. They'd tear up an old Civic or Integra, though!

All I can say is WOW. I doff my proverbial cap to you!

Thanks for the kind words, XLR. It's a tough but extremely rewarding job and I love it. I couldn't do it without my fellow GRM-board poster and partner in teaching crimes, "carbon"!

I think the solution here is to approach the junkyard owner to see if he'll donate the cars to the program. If I can get him to, and the project goes well, the school will fund the project and if it goes south, no harm done; I won't lose $500 and we can always re-junk the cars.

I taught shop for 18 years and computer classes for another 10. so I understand the difference between the "can and will" students and the "can't or wont" students. Any time I tried group projects I spent some time dealing with the frustration of the "cans" over the work of the "can'ts". I taught at the middle school level so the level of frustration may be different with older students.

If I had a "can" student with the proper temperament I would make them an "assistant teacher" to teach and supervise the "can'ts". The problem with that was to get the "can" to understand that they were not to do all the work, but show the "can'ts" how to do it and make sure they did it right.

The other method I used when possible was to break up the project into smaller parts so that the "can'ts" progress or lack thereof would not hinder the "cans".

With the size of the project you are proposing, you could probably use both methods. Either way, I wish you luck with your project.

In reply to Hal:

You wrote, "If I had a "can" student with the proper temperament I would make them an "assistant teacher" to teach and supervise the "can'ts". The problem with that was to get the "can" to understand that they were not to do all the work, but show the "can'ts" how to do it and make sure they did it right.

The other method I used when possible was to break up the project into smaller parts so that the "can'ts" progress or lack thereof would not hinder the "cans"."

That's our approach, too. Thank you!

Take it from a former troubled teen: you need to use projects that they will someday afford. Tell them this, it was so cool to know that I could work at a Wendy's AND drive a cool car! This is why I've always driven Japanese cars from the 80's. I'm just a poor farm kid from Illinois. I second making it a running car, when the intensity of enthusiasm runs low you take the car out in front of them and show them what it can do. (Burnouts, drifts, two wheel driving if your amazing.) doing this gets them reinvested. I know this because I (at age 30) have to watch 1uzfe videos to reignite my motivation. Also, start them with small goals first, accomplishment does wonders for self esteem and confidence. It also bolsters enthusiasm. Start small, and work up to the big day when you tell them " now we're getting rid of the rust", even though that is counterintuitive to the correct way to restore a car.

I wish our auto tech program offered anything like that in highschool. Me and 2 friends were the "cans" and spent all our time doing headgaskets on 2.2 cavaliers and transmission swaps in chevy trucks for customers. We would have killed for an interesting project instead. The lack of fun projects is what slowly killed our enthusiasm.

Make it about girls, money, 22's, or Internet fame and you might hold their attention.

So...

• a cute late model convertible with a nice interior,

• a quick flip project that shows them how to make a little honest money,

• an 80's vintage American piece of iron with a candy paint job and some rented wheels,

• or a 1956 bus driving cross country- add graffiti paint job, YouTube channel, and awards for most FaceBook likes.

These are the things that have importance in their lives.

In reply to dropstep:

You sound like you were the kind of student we are delighted to see enroll!

dropstep wrote: The lack of fun projects is what slowly killed our enthusiasm.

"Carbon" and I try to thwart that by bringing in projects that we think will generate enthusiasm, And that we think are able to be completed. Carbon is the clear leader in that department, having brought in his Lexus Is300 SportCross for an auto to manual swap, and then installed remote resivoir coil overs and rose jointed trailing arms. The students also swoon over his third-gen MR Spyder turbo racecar. In comparison, I bring in science projects. The kids seemed excited to work on my Boxster, although I only let them do a wheel bearing. The BMW projects were well received, but I'm not sure I can afford too many more of those

Related to the recommendations about keeping the project scope smaller.

Have you tried working with some of the local dealers for projects?

You may be able to get then to sell (or donate) some of their low value trades. It may make more financial sense for them to donate the $500 trade than to pay the transport and associated fees to send it through the auction.

Those will typically be something that runs and drives so you'd be have a smaller scope of work than trying to revive a car from the dead.

You may also want to talk to some of the charities in the area. For example, I know when I worked at Shriners hospital in Springfield they used to occasionally have people donate vehicles. Depending on the vehicle it may not make sense for them to try to sell it, but maybe they could refer the donor to you.

M030 wrote: In reply to dropstep: You sound like you were the kind of student we are delighted to see enroll!

Tech school is the biggest reason i managed to graduate. Its hard too please every type of student and we had 5 fail outs our jr year. Its a 2year program locally.

The best thing was senior year on fridays we were allowed to bring our personal vehicles in too work on. Im not sure how they managed it with all the liability issues but access too equipment i didnt have at home was a terrific boost in enthusiasm and will power to stick out the boring jobs.