Apparently our new FM221 ECU can be configured to be legal for STS/STR on a 1.6 Miata. Before we go down this R&D road, I want to get an idea of how big the field is. I have the impression it's fairly popular, but in our isolated little mountain town there is no SCCA of any sort.
Anyone know?
I don't have any hard numbers (does anyone?), but every autocross event I've been to has a fairly big STS contingent of Miatas.
Locally it seems to be shrinking slightly. At the last national tour I attended it was fairly massive (more than a dozen cars).
I'd say it's a market worth pursuing if the initial outlay isn't crazy expensive.
From Nationals this year; in STS there were 19 drivers in 1.6 miatas and 3 drivers in 1.8 miatas. In STR there were no NAs listed, 2 NB-VVL drivers and 1 NB driver.
There were roughly 175 Miata drivers total.
KyAllroad wrote: I'd say it's a market worth pursuing if the initial outlay isn't crazy expensive.
You sound like one of the engineers at FM, he can see all sides of any given fence 
How does "more than a dozen" compare to classes like CSP?
The last event in Houston had 8 STS cars, one was a Miata, it won. STR had 10 entries, two Miata drivers, both in the same car. There were also four STR Miatas in novice and one STS Miata in Novice.
There is a rule change proposed that would allow stand-alone engine management in Street Touring starting in 2018.
Beautiful, thanks guys.
Numbers? "Way the hell more than CSP!". I am seeing more and more people build for this class locally, as the NA's are now cheap enough for 'kids' to buy...who then get older and catch the competitive bug and spend money on them. There's 4 new local builds this season and these are people actually buying good shocks, seeking out folks to revalve them, spending money on name brand engine bolt-ons, springing for 7.5" wheels rather than 7" etc. I love it. Maybe it's only in this little corner of the country, but hey. It's something.
Note that "legal" for these classes, even with open engine management, is potentially limited by the factory sensors the car was equipped with. Might only be an issue for 1990-93's with no mass air flow or manifold air pressure.
That's what I'm looking for, whether it's worth putting the effort into developing a non-quoted legal engine management option using factory sensors. I know from experience that a good ECU is worth about 7-10 hp on the 1.6. Heck, I think GRM got 15 out of their aeons ago with one of our older ECUs.
It's worth noting that for the guys with a 1.6 in STS, the 2018 rule change means we can run an AEM FIC6. Combined with the old school ECU crystal mod, this gets you ignition and fuel control along with a raised rev limit. Previously you could have one or the other, but not both (because adding a piggyback was only allowed with a completely stock ECU) unless you built a full standalone in the factory case. I am not qualified to speak as to whether the above combination is just as good as a full standalone. But if it is, it'll be cheaper than yours. ($350 plus $200 to $400 if you pay through the nose for a harness)
The above is all obviously irrelevant for a 1.8 in STS or an NB in STR.
Keith Tanner wrote:KyAllroad wrote: I'd say it's a market worth pursuing if the initial outlay isn't crazy expensive.You sound like one of the engineers at FM, he can see all sides of any given fence
There were 22 drivers in CSP @ Nationals, all were Na/NB Miatas. 7 in CSP Ladies.
https://www.scca.com/pages/solo-archives
You can flip through other national tour and prosolo events there as well.
BUT, the FM support with tuning would be fantastic for a plug and play ECU that uses all OEM sensors! When it comes down to national level prep, being cheaper isn't always the fastest option...
Locally STS is 6-10 cars, most of which are Miatas. 2 are full-tilt nationally competitive builds.
There are 2-3 STR NA Miata regulars, but they're less srs bzns builds.
CSP is 4-5 cars, all of which are Miatas, 2 of which are full prep - including the car that has won Nationals the last 3 years.
Even if the rule change for 2018 makes it easier to run something like megasquirt, I'm still interested in an off the shelf, supported solution, even if it costs a little more. STS has been growing pretty quickly locally as well.
Keith Tanner wrote:KyAllroad wrote: I'd say it's a market worth pursuing if the initial outlay isn't crazy expensive.You sound like one of the engineers at FM, he can see all sides of any given fence
Thanks! I'll take that as a compliment. It should be pretty straightforward to figure. How much would you be looking at in development costs VS profit per unit VS units moved per year. I would imagine that if it cost the end user $200 you could potentially see a lot of traffic for the next few years as kids get serious about autocrossing their cheap cars. If it's $500 per unit, you'll not see much sales volume. Kids are more sensitive to cost than you usual FM target market (gray/balding/affluent)
You would be surprised at our demographics. Not as gray and balding as you might think. Affluent - well, we offer parts for a wide range of prices. But there's a group of self-identified young people who keep telling themselves that our stuff (which you buy once) is more expensive than buying crap 5x over. These are probably the same ones who keep calling up and trying to buy a magical $600 autocross suspension with 800/600 lb springs.
I can do the math on costs and profit, this thread was intended to gauge the size of the potential market. It will be a $1000 setup. It is not aimed at Club Roadster youngs, it's aimed at people who read SCCA rulebooks and look for an advantage.
And being able to see all sides of a given fence means you can never actually express an opinion of something, so you are useless when it comes to making a decision. The olds like to get something done and move on instead of jawing it to death. 
The need to build a Frankenmiata to be competitive is hurting CSP numbers and helping STR/STS numbers in general. STR is still the domain of the S2000, but there's legit renewed interest in Miatas now that the ECU thing is happening.
And some more:
In terms of market size, it's still not what I'd call a "big" market. But... it's not a market that's shy about cracking their wallets. There may not be a lot of people, but 80% will line up to buy your better mousetrap if that is indeed what it is.
Agreed, competitive autocrossers are far more likely to spend money than the average Miata owner. The average Miata owner is mostly just taking care of their car so a non-average owner can buy it later
Take a peek at this past year's results in our local (Rocky Mountain) chapter. STR & STS seem to be fairly popular, certainly the most popular of the ST classes, and considerably more popular than the SM & Prepared classes... Even if they get edged out by the Street/stock classes.
Although at a local level, not many Miata's in STR (I suspect ND's will find a comfortable home there at Nationals, but the prior cars just aren't that competitive).
Pretty good assortment of Miata's in STS though.
https://www.rmsolo.org/results.php
STS only has 2 cars in my chapter (a '94 Miata and an automatic Maxima, and the Maxima is usually the winner) but our chapter is tiny and kind of strange. I have the only Street Prepared car, H/Street is usually the biggest at about 9 cars and a typical event only has about 30 people in attendance (on the plus side, that means there are a lot of easy class wins and it's unusual to get less than 7 runs an event)
Years ago, back when I was autocrossing and organizing a lot- we saw a need for street tired classes for all of the modified classes.
The reason we did that- the improvised street tire classes we had were dominating the non-street tired classes by a HUGE margin.
So we made street tire classes for everything. Which changed the dynamics even MORE to street tires.
Which is to say- this should not be just about national level cars at all. If you can get the word out properly, there are probably a few times more people you can appeal to on a local level.
Even though I've not run for a while, I'm sure it's stayed this way.
I figure National numbers gives us a good sample. Obviously, we'd be hoping to sell to competitors at all levels - but as had been illustrated, the National info is accessible.
Looks like we are moving ahead with this. It's a more powerful ECU than the MS2 that is currently being used and has more potential for future upgrades should the owner decide to throw off the shackles of class restrictions.
The Civic/CRX has been THE STS car to have but the Miata has been chipping away. As soon as someone figures out the magic formula I expect there will be a flood of Miatas. They're more available and easier to source parts for and people enjoy driving them more (having talked to the competitors driving them) but the national level guys will always go with what wins.
You'll need to log in to post.
